vBulletin Nightmare

To put this succinctly as possible. You don't really have much of a clue of what happens behind the scenes. Policies can and do get rewritten because of feedback from the support staff. Discounts on expired licenses, extended support of vBulletin 3.8.X Owned Licenses through next year (even if already expired), the ability of leased licenses to upgrade to 4.0, and more are all because of the support staff looking out of the customer.

We do a lot more than simple support. We are your one and only line of defense. We are the ones that forward your feedback on. We are the ones that accept your abuse and still fight for you. We are however not monkeys with a gun blindly following orders.

You should really think twice about what you say. I know your having fun being on the "Hate vBulletin Bandwagon" but really, you're not making any friends. While I have compassion for Mark.B's and PTWiggens' situation and will discuss it in our daily teleconference today, it doesn't extend to all customers.

 

Well you only have to look Wayne at how easy people are getting banned now unlike before. In the past two weeks from what I've seen, 3 banning's have taken place: "TECK, Mark.B, and ptwiggens", there could be more I've missed. In my time at vBulletin I've never seen 3 people get banned in such a short space of time as that. A clear sign really that we don't need to know what's going on behind the scene fully, to see what's changes IB are forcing on you as staff moderating the forums.


Even Steve Machol posted an announcement recently saying that moderation was being step-up a gear. Admitted publicly on vBulletin that IB are intent of getting rid of posts that complain too much in manner they don't like, and feel may effect sales negatively.

I'm not disputing that there are times when you may defend us, or even some decisions made. But you know as well as me Wayne that the final decision making is done by IB. They have the last say regardless of what you think. Your an employee for them, which means your no different from me when I'm at work. If I get told to do a job I don't want to do, I still have to do it.

 

Thank you, I truly appreciate that. If my ban is removed, I will let bygones be bygones and only post about technical support issues.

 

Me too.

Whilst it's great to be wise after the event, I've been too harshly critical of the company, and have actually acted like a pillock at times.

The staff have a hard enough job at the moment and really I should have been more supportive of them, even if I didn't necessarily support all the changes.

It's not as if I would benefit if the company became unsuccessful. I'd rather they do really well and make a ton of cash, that way there's more to invest in development.

Whilst I had valid concerns I probably jumped on a bandwagon a bit more than I should have, and whilst I was never rude to the staff, I should have perhaps been more supportive of their predicament. It can be like a bear pit in there.

I've been ill and off work two weeks as well (back today). Not an excuse but it probably made me grumpier than I should be!

Wise after the event? Sure. I'll take that criticism on the chin.

 

I'm afraid that's not always the case here. You (as a person) may not like banning people, and use it as a last resort, but Ray does not feel the same. All it takes is him to get an 'opinion' of you that is bad and you're toast across any and all sites owned by vBulletin

 

It's my understanding that vBulletin doesn't own or maintain vb.org. Because they can't ban people over there the regular way, vBulletin wrote into the system that links the license to vb.org a way for them to effectively ban people without vb.org having any knowledge of it by blocking the license.

 

Your understanding is 100% incorrect. vB and IB definitely own and administrate vb.org and can (and will) ban accounts from there.

 

I would say in my defence that I wasn't contacted by anyone at any point, either publicly or privately. I had no infractions or formal warnings or anything. Just nothing one minute - banned the next.

It wasn't even a post I'd made that day.

Had I been asked to back off - then of course I would have.

 

You sir, seem to have no concept of what pain, sorrow, death, misery, war, lose of life or genocide is.

Getting banned from a forum in no way compares to the amount of life lost, or the misery that was caused by Hitler.

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As for getting banned from vbulltin.com/.org - when your in someone elses house, mind your manners. If you do not have any manners, learn some.

 

Or stalin who out done hitler in the "good ole days". :p

What's 7 odd million extra between dictators hey?

 

Fine, but leave me with the contractual rights I've just paid a lot of money for.

vBulletin is a business, in the game to make money. it's not like a private forum. It shouldn't actually matter if customers are pleasant or not, the purpose of the whole thing is to make money, not friends.

vBulletin's *only* interest should be, ultimately, making money out of me.

 

One thing about a free enterprise system, if you do not like the product, go buy something else.

I got tired of my chevrolet truck breaking down, so I bought a Toyota.

When your vbulletin license expires, go buy invision power board.

 

I heard if you purchase IPB between now and halloween customers have a 67% chance of imploding. Whether this is down to the software is open to conjecture and debate.

Always ensure that forum software requirements are not going to conflict against/with your medical conditions. You have been warned.

 

Wayne, I'm not sure that everyone at vB is following this protocol. I believe that people have been banned with no, or very little, personal warning. That seems to me very wrong.

This comment is in no way aimed at you personally. And I'm sure that bans are usually regarded as a last resort. In the last week, however, I think that one or more of your colleagues has acted outside the usual guideliness for banning.

 

It's what you call gravitational collapse.

 

The posts that reference the historical tragic event (and compare it to how vBulletin.com is run) have been removed. Several members have expressed their displeasure with the postings, and I personally think it's a bit too far, regardless of the humorous intentions.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

Wayne, I accept everything you have said here, and I very much appreciate all that you and your colleagues have done.

My point for the moment is addressed to my own colleagues, i.e., admins of other vB boards.

And that point is: not a single one of the many things mentioned should have been necessary. I mean, what is wrong with a company that spends months coming up with a plan that needs such massive overhauling (and that still suffers from some horrible inequities)????

Yes, I'm sure that's true. And that's really quite alarming. First, all the changes you fought for should have been made in the general office, or in public relations, such that you would never even have heard of them.

Second, what will happen to your customers if a day comes when you and Steve are not there? At some point, all the support staff will belong to the post-Jelsoft era. They will not have the depth of experience and concern that you and Steve have. They will be IB people, pure and simple. There will be no one to fight for us as you and he have. And what a mess that will be.

 

Business realities and customers needs don't often mix well. Most of the time they are like oil and water. I won't say this couldn't have been handled better but all we can do is learn and move forward. If you don't trust us, then we need to work harder to regain that. We realize that.

We're a very small company. What stood for the "General Office" under Jelsoft doesn't exist anymore and they never really interacted on a daily basis with the customers to the extent that we do. As such, the people at IB actually come to us for our experience in dealing with the customers we have and we have to work to make sure you're represented.

We can play what if games all day but it doesn't accomplish anything in the here and now. All we can do is to work and create policies for new employees to follow as they are brought into the fold. After that, we cannot make any guarantees. Then you don't have any real guarantees from any business.

 

Wayne, I appreciate your responding to what I wrote. But . . .

Much was lost, and needlessly so. Ray Morgan swore up and down months ago that vB couldn't make any announcements because he and others were working so hard to come up with a plan that would be fair to everyone. It would have taken a very great, deliberate effort to do worse than they did.

Apparently they did not do so early enough, or often enough. And they have still failed to do so in extremely important respects. When I read of people who paid real money just weeks ago, and who are now in a worse position than a brand new customer, it makes me sick. (Sorry, but it does.)

With all due respect, it is not a game. It is a very real concern. The line between us and being bullied to death by Ray et al. seems all too human and really quite thin.

 

im already sick of vb4 and ive only used it twice. :-(

and its NOT cuz its a bad product..lol..