Vbulletin.com Saga

Its difficult for people to make the difference between someone doing their job, and that same person as a real person.

Its kinda like an off duty cop walking into a bar where he has arrested a lot of people. Even though he is off duty, that does not matter to a lot of people. Even though he was doing his job by arresting people, that does not matter. People are still going to look at him and say "he is a cop."

Wayne and Steve have a job to do. They have bills, kids to feed, house note, car note, insurance,,,,. If they do not do their job, internet brands will get someone in there that can. But their actions at vbulletin.com and vbulletin.org carry over to places like this.

That is just the way things are.

 

Sorry Peggy....I agree that name calling is bashing. And I think I've a good record of standing up against that, even when I was arguing with the company. Attacking the staff is wrong.

It's sad if Wayne no longer comes here. It might be that he has been instructed not to. It wouldn't be that surprising if he has, to be honest.

My point was that on many sites, people who are simply disagreeing with the company get accused of "bashing".

 

What you call bashing and what i call telling the world what happened is two different things. I am not hiding behind a keyboard nor locking my private message system. Wayne Luke called me names and gave me a serious infraction for sharing snippets of the leaked info. All wayne had to do was pm me, ask me to remove them or he would give me an infraction, and i would have removed it. Instead he took an unprofessional route and lowered himself to name calling and keyboard bulling. Steve Machol did the same thing, he protected people with higher post counts (his friends) and infracted me for defending myself against taunting by a vbulletin member named poolking. Instead of warning me, he went right for the infraction. I tried to keep it private, but steve doesn't accept private messages, so i asked in public. Vbulletin moderators were mad that i took administrative actions out into the public, and i received infractions.
You guys are very confusing over there. All i wanted was the things i paid for, my vbulletin forum software and my blogs program. I don't care about the cms, project tools, etc. Sadly peggy, you may be a bit biased on this since you are a beta tester and have very positive feeling towards vbulletin, and you probably enjoy the attention that came along with being a beta tester. I don't want to be a tester, and i don't care about my status or what people think about me. I built an automotive enthusiasts website, i continued faithfully to pay for my yearly upgrades/renewal, only to be lied to, banned and have my license suspended. How come nobody pm's these guys (if you can) and see if what i am saying is the truth.
Usually bashing is attacking, and i am not attacking. You might see it that way because i think these guys are unprofessional and i no longer have respect for them. But the things i am stating, is the truth and the whole truth, nothing but the truth. I don't need these guys as friends, don't want their help, have never asked for the friendship or help, i just want the things i paid for, period. Doesn't seem to much to ask for? But it is, since these guys attacked and harassed me.

 

Hold on a second peggy. Is it okay for wayne and co to bash whilst when the shoe is on the other foot it's bashing? I don't call this bashing, I don't even call it ignorance or many of the other words you may associate with "dressing up bullying" what I call it is "selective ignorance" and a good portion of seeing what you want and not seeing or reading what's there.

Look at the bigger picture here. Can bashing be associated with words? can we also associate bashing by actions? because if we go on the latter then the people who in turn question this recieve a nice helping of "your banned" and another helping of "banned from the vbulletin.org" and you'll be not updating your forum with existing scripts you downloaded from there which where freely made available and could in turn pose security risks if somebody happened to spot one and you cannot access the org because you are now banned.

Did I mention that people provide scripts and resources there for free? for everyone who as a legitimate license?

I don't know steve I've ever had a problem with him and not likely ever will but I know what other employees are like and what they are capable of saying and doing.

Let's all save our rants for the vbulletin solutions christmas party. lol

 

I hope i get a christmas card invitation. hehehehehe

 

Its not that I don't believe you, but do you have any screen shots of proof of any of this? Actual evidence in a physical form can go a long way to help your argument, provide beyond a reasonable doubt, and put the burden of disproving your story on the other side.

Anyone can craft up a decent story like this, and sure there will be those who "take it as gospel" (especially based on recent events) and those who ask for evidence or some sort of actual proof so you can help prove your case. Trust me, I've been thru a similar situation personally, and there are those who believe him without him having to prove any of it, and there are those who want some sort of screenshot or evidence of half the things claimed.

Not saying this is the case, but with me (and a lot of level headed people here), a little more evidence could go a long way in supporting your claims. I don't personally know any of the parties mentioned in your post, so therefore I'm in the dark to what they're capable of. The only imagine I have of them, is from they post in public (and as you've already heard, most of which is simply answering questions).

 

wow, i posted images in another thread. I really am a bit confused on what pictures people actually want. I will post the same pictures here too. Please let me know what other pictures you would like to see.
I have no reason to lie and if you ask anyone that knows me on the internet or in person, i am a very honest and open person. I do have trouble posting what i am thinking without coming across as an ass, because i can't type as fast as i think, but what has happened to me by way of steve machol and wayne luke is horrible and unjustified.

 

your screenshots certainly prove another interesting aspect that vBulletin refutes is that they don't revoke access to vBulletin.org based on vBulletin.com behavior. Your screen shots clearly say differently though.

And I'm not saying your lying or making things up, personally it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I was merely suggesting to lend credibility to your post, that actual evidence be presented rather than textual facts thats all

 

I gotcha david, and thanks for helping me prove my points. Please forgive me too, i am still a bit frustrated with the entire fiasco this has turned into. My gut tells my to buy invision board, but i am not convinced that it will have all of the options i currently have on my site. It is currently built perfectly in my opinion and is different then most vbulletin forum sites. If i could know for sure that invision has all the options i need, i would go ahead and avoid making a car payment this month and buy invision board software. Dang this sucks.

 

Positive feelings towards vB? Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about. Please do not mistake me for someone who agrees with everything that has gone on. I have repeatedly stated that I disagree with many of the tactics being used. Being a member of the alpha/beta testing team has absolutely nothing to do with anything. In many ways, it's not a favorable place to be. And that is all I will say about any of this.

 

Peggy, i just want you to know that i mean no ill will towards you at all and i truly have enjoyed the things you have given to our community.

All i am trying to do is see if it was legal for them to take the steps that have been taken against me. I don't want to participate at vbulletin.com nor do i really care about anyone over there. To ban me is one thing but to suspend my license is another. I am a paying customer and should have had the right to be heard, instead i was harassed by members of the staff there and because i continued to stand up for what i believe is wrong, i was banned. I am not a victim nor am i trying to be a victim, but it doesn't seem like a good way to do business, by treating people like this.

 

For the record. Here are the facts that I see looking at your account:

1) You did get banned after 6 infractions/warnings to curb your behavior on the site. Do you give people on your site as many warnings?
2) I also don't recall calling you any names and only issued one 10 point infraction on your account. It takes 100 to receive a ban. The message to you in regards to that infraction was "The information in this post is not allowed on this website and has been deleted." That was in August. I don't have a reply from you. I've spent the last hour and a half looking at threads where you posted and couldn't find anything. I have never answered a support ticket from you so it couldn't have been in that.
3) If I did say something in a thread you posted in, it was along the lines that people were acting childish but that is a generalization and not something directed at you.
4) We log all bannings and permissions changes. You never lost your permissions at vBulletin.org but also do not have any users currently registered on that site that are associated with your customer account. You should add your email address to the priority support form.

 

I'm in the same mindset with this you are Peggy. I may not be very involved here but that's mainly because I'm too busy at this time but I am very selective where I get involved and I won't waste my time when I feel the character of the place is questionable. Allowing things to occur for the sake of "traffic" doesn't and never has smelled right to me. Don't get me wrong, Peggy knows very well how I feel about events of late and the fact that I've laid my neck out on the block several times to make it known to IB however I also have to be able to sleep well at night and the way I do that is by always taking the high road regardless of what others around me are doing.

 

Thank you for your reply wayne, i think that is very professional for you to take the time and actually address this.
1.) I do not use the infraction system on my site, nor do i allow banning. I firmly believe that people have a fundamental right to say what's on their mind without the threat of banning. So many time's i find people want to say one thing, but say another, so they don't get into trouble. I prefer my members to say what's on their minds. My site is built around no rules. I don't have a list of rules to follow, i changed the vbulletin standard registration form and got rid of all of the stuff that talked about cussing, vulgarity, etc.....I currently have well over 2300 members and all of them like that fact that they won't face banning or infractions if they have a bad day.
2.) You call me names via the pm system. I was involved in a post where moderators were stating things weren't going to happen and that everyone needed to calm down. I took snippets of the leaked information, and posted these snippets in quotes along with a vbulletin members question. (So i took a question and gave it an answer via the leaked information). Without any notice, you gave me a serious infraction. I pm'd you and asked you why you felt i needed an infraction, instead of a warning? I would have taken my post down, i thought i was being helpful. You replied by calling me names. With that, i don't know you and felt that wasn't the best way to handle the situation, but apparently that must be the norm at vbulletin.com. I even kept my posting in the licensed customer feedback section, and not in the public eye. Seriously, i thought that the feedback section was an area to discuss the things that were being discussed. I had no idea that moderators would start banning and interacting customers for being upset with their own personal situation. Now to finish, the amount of infractions isn't in question to me, but from your statement above, it makes it sound like i received them all in a short time and that it was an automatic suspension and it wasn't. 4 of my infractions which i received from steve machol had expired by almost a month. The one i received from you, was to never expire, so i was stuck with yours forever. The last one i received was from a moderator named Zachery and it too was never to expire, but i notified the moderators of the post getting out of control and that the thread should be closed. So i only had two infractions at the time of my permanent banning. The 4 that i received from steve machol are still questionable to me, since i was being taunted by poolking, steve never said anything to that member. I replied back to poolking in the thread and received an infraction. I then tried to ask steve how come he infracted me (he doesn't have his pm system open), and he gave me an infraction for talking about administrative actions in public. (How in the heck was i supposed to know i couldn't do that if i can't ask in private?). Anyways, i asked again and he gave me another infraction. I then asked why are you doing this and he infracted me yet again. So i left the site for a while. Anyways, i did not have 6 infractions sitting there which lead to my lifetime banning, i only had two. Over the time i have been a member at vbulletin.com, these were the only infractions i have ever received and i have never caused trouble there in the past. I asked you guys to look at my time before the leaked information, instead i got a lifetime banning for not being a happy customer.
3) You never really posted in the threads i was involved with, nor the threads i had started. Your name calling was done in private via the private message system. (I have tried to think that you must have been having a bad day and that's why you replied how you did, but i knew that wasn't the case, when you never lifted your infraction.) Like i have said before, infracting is upto you, but i really think if you had looked my situation, you would have came to a different conclusion. But that is fine too, i am man enough to accept my punishment, even though it was handed down childishly, and was given with malice. You calling me names via the pm system was uncalled for and i think you know that. You don't have to admit it, but i think deep down inside, you know it.
4) Now as far as the lifetime banning goes, i have always been hotwheels. I have well over a 1,000 posts and vbulletin.org. My license status didn't change until steve banned me for life. So how can i not have any names associated with my account? I was able to log into vbulletin.org earlier that evening. In one swoop, steve suspended my license, banned me from vbulletin.com for life. During his attempt to suspend me, i think he did something with my customer account. How can i go from being active at the 2 sites and being able to log into my customer account, to not being able to do anything? I am totally confused here, i keep getting told that certain things didn't happen with my account, yet i can't do anything. If you look at the pictures i uploaded here, you can see my username, my post count ect.......Yet in the big pink box, you can see my license is no longer valid.

I am NOT asking to go back to vbulletin.com forums, because i have no respect for you, steve machol and ray morgan. I believe in my heart that you guys lie and try to censor the things that are posted on vbulletin.com. Which is fine, it's your site. You guys should be thick skinned enough to understand that people are upset with what is happening with vbulletin.com. Since you apparently draw a paycheck from them, i guess you have to do what you are told and try to keep new customers thinking that people are excited about the vbulletin 4 software and that the sales of the software are the best ever. Ray Morgan lies when he states that too, there are hundreds of people that are upset over this entire fiasco, but they are keeping their thoughts to themselves in fear of retaliation from you and steve machol. ( I am not trying to attack or bash you in this part of my post, i am just trying to explain my views of your guys heavy handed, thug like actions.) I too can't believe that Mr. Brisco or what ever his name is, hasn't had anyone look at steve machol's record on how he handles customers. The guy is out of control and is not being very professional when it comes to older customers. I have suggested it to ray morgan in the past, but maybe steve should take a leave of absence for a month or so. This may lead to moderators like yourself, calming down and thinking more rationally before you call people names and give out lifetime banning s.

 

Like I said, I don't have a record of any PMs with you. I keep all PMs sent and received until the end of the year. Then they are backed up and stored locally on my computer while deleted off that site. I guess they could have been deleted due to some incident due to your banning but I haven't seen that happen before.

As for your vBulletin.org account, you can sit here arguing about it. Or you can add the email address used on that account to the Priority Forum Support form in the vBulletin.com member's area. Your customer account has not been and never was 'suspended'. Licenses are only revoked, never suspended. If they are revoked it requires 4 notices over a period of 28 days to document it and they can only be revoked for license violations. If your license had been revoked, the ticket you sent in yesterday wouldn't have been answered.

Anyway, I have said all that can be said in this thread. Good luck to you in the future. May wherever you land fulfill your needs.

 

Thanks wayne and i will try to see if i can log into my customer account and change my email address. I am not sure what to change it to though, since i never changed anything. Something transpired when steve banned me, and i haven't been able to figure out what it is. How can i find out what the email address is supposed to be? I only have 3 email address's and i have never changed them.

 

Why should Nick let you know if you're crossing the line? You're 43 years old, use your common sense to differentiate what is okay, and what is not okay.

You trip me out, and I mean trip me out a whole lot! Your work schedule doesn't allow you alot of time to go on the internet to find out what is going on in the world of vBulletin.com, but allows you the time to run around the web finding vBulletin slam-fest rallies. Bull crap. If you were so concerned about your mistreatment, you'd be taking off of work to find the time to sort things out. Apparently, you're not so concerned. Move to a different software.

I am appalled, Kevin. That's all I'll say.

Kudo's to leaving, Peggy! Maybe we all should, and boycott AdminAddict for allowing such foul behavior. When I joined here in May, I joined with the intention to stick around for the same reasons you planned too. Instead, I've went through hell and high waters with these staff members - which leads me to my point - am I going around flaunting my disrespect for Nick? I think not. Because you know what, at the end of the day, we all need resources - and when resources are not provided, everything fails. You cannot just go to the library and take out a book on community management. You'll never find anything.

Yeah, yeah, your story changes every three posts. You need to compile a story, with legit proof and stick with it.

Really, I am at my breaking point as well - seeing "adults" go back and forth is worth boycotting in itself.

Seriously, AdminAddict is getting rid of all its good people, to be replaced with spammers.

Hotwheels, I'd also like to add that this isn't a rally where we are against IB/vBulletin - that's where you slipped up, and 'caused yourself to be in this position you're in now. That comment is in response to this post:

Count your blessings people. Count yourself lucky that you're still here. Because I was banned, for allegedly inciting trouble.

In that case, we all should be banned. Because I don't know what you all call this - but there sure is some inciting trouble around here! Probably why nobody ever visits anymore. Why should they? All the posts here are focused about vBulletin. Never more do we have a nice, big family!

We're all brutal now. :nailbite:

*Face palm.*

Through time, they say, our lacerations will heal. But how can they, if we keep them open.

 

Eh, I'm going to leave this alone for awhile.

 

The whole thing has clearly gotten out of hand on many levels, not just for IB/vBulletin but I see a lot of it spewing here, and people saying they're leaving the community this and that because people come here to share their stories.

Grow up. If you don't like whats being posted then either A. Ignore it, vBulletin has a feature where you can ignore users who you don't like reading their ranting and ravings from. B. really do leave but you don't need to announce it and try to get even more attention on the way out. Just because you don't agree with whats being posted/typed on an internet message board, doesn't mean you can complain and use the "I'm leaving if it doesn't get deleted" card every chance you have. Chances are good there are only two people who know the exact facts, and you probably aren't one of them if you're throwing a fit like a 5 year old over it.

Pro Tip: Don't feed the trolls, and they won't come.