vB4 Beta 3 is OUT!

Nick, you raise a good point by saying the ooohhh and ahhh factor is missing in vB 4.

What is one of the first things that attracts you about a new car? Ooohhh, look at that! Would I ever look good driving that, or what? Ahhh, this car rides so nicely. Ahhh, these seats fit me like a glove.

Take away those two factors and you're suddenly out of the market for that particular car. Ooohhhs and ahhhs are first impression reactions.

When I saw Alpha 1, I was sorely disappointed. I kept reminding myself it was a very early Alpha and to give it a chance. Alpha 2 came along and I was still disappointed. Nothing seemed to be getting any better with the new releases. It was as if any criticism was going unheard, constructive or not. By the time the last Alpha was released, I was already in discussion with Matt Mecham and Charles Warner of IPB.

vB had their chance to make a good first impression. And they blew it. My fifth impression was as dismal as my first.

The last time vB really grabbed my attention with a new feature was back when the plug-in system and inline moderation were introduced. Since that time, I had been asking myself why I was bothering to upgrade. The social networking bloat was pitiful. I had already tried vBlogetin with no success and it had vB's blog script whipped, seven ways to sundown. People often gripe about seeing server load going up with the addition of vBSEO. Let me share that I saw more load after upgrading from vB 3.6.x to vB 3.7.0 than I ever saw with vBSEO.

Four to five years ago, I felt vB was the best forum package out there. Today, I see them running a distant second-place. Maybe they will turn that around, I don't know. Best of luck to them.

 

Re: What I don't like about vB 4

I know how you feel. If I could afford an IPB license, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

Re: What I don't like about vB 4

Now you aren't the only one. I've now played with vB4 Beta since it was released and can say its total shit as it stands in its current form from a usability standpoint IMO. I feel like there is a slim chance the software reaches a stable gold release by years end when its been projected to, as the bugs are rapidly mounting since releasing it to public.

I only took a brief look at the styling and variables used in vB4, while it doesn't seem all the complicated to adapt to, why the change from the previous versions to this new system seems like the time could have better spent else where in development.

It took about 30 minutes of playing with the CMS to get a layout similar to vBulletin.com CMS. It was confusing every step of the way, and a lot of the time the modules/widgets saved incorrectly in their positions.


Also a side thought, they said vB4 had record sales, but I don't see that many people posting in the vB4 section? So are people not really testing it or reporting back, or is the "record sales" statement a smoke screen.

 

Without the org community and their addons ipb wins hands down over vbulletin. Whilst this is a waiting game to see how the community is going to support vb4 only time will tell.

Vb have lived off their past success for far too long and it's a fact that this innovative edge they once had is gone.

The whole product tells you this from the word go. How many companies do you know will push out a software that still has remnants of their previous versions. It's clear that they pushed this product out hopeing that their past success was going to save them but people are wiser and lived with a stagnated piece of script for far to long. looking back at previous releases you have got bloat and half complete features.

The creative level with this current lot is at a low and their standards are definitely lowered. I'll stick with 3.8 for now. I am tempted to turn to ipb but as with most wait and see where the wind blows.

 

I agree with you 100%, Shelley. I think they did rely on their (well it wasn't theirs; it was Jelsoft's) past success to possibly get them through this.

Combine IB's PR/management blunders with their lack of quality and creativity, and what have you got? You have a customer base with pitch forks in hand, ready to charge. Many people already have. Others are retreating and switching to other solutions.

What really bothers me is that IB came in expecting customers' immediate respect.
Short timeline of events:

1. IB came barging in = Minus respect from customers
   1. It's only natural for customers to be cynical of whoever is coming in and taking over, no matter who they are, where they come from, or what experience they have. They start out with zero respect and need to build it up themselves. They need to prove themselves to us. They haven't done this; they've done just the opposite.
2. The majority of the original core vB developers leave = worry amongst customers, confusion, loss of more respect for IB.
3. IB promises us that all is well, and we should anticipate a revolutionary product. = We wait in disbelief
4. IB makes some huge mistakes and pretty much ignore them = We criticize IB, urge them to clarify what is going on. They don't = loss of more respect
5. They try to make up for these mistakes by upgrading their website to vBulletin 4 prematurely. They continue to claim to be the best product on the market, they expect people to keep paying them without knowing what we're paying for, and they treat customers harshly == MAJOR loss of respect.
6. By this point, customers have no more respect for IB than they do for a pile of sticks.
7. --- We are here: who knows what the future holds ---

As I mentioned in this post (http://www.adminaddict.net/forum/vb...w-what-do-about-vbulletin-4-a-4892/#post57990) I have two choices and neither of them require a prompt decision. So like you, I guess I will just wait and see what happens. Maybe things will be turned around by vB 5. Until then, I guess I'm sticking with 3.8.

 

That would be your best bet. Stick with 3.8. Heck, if you where planning on revamping adminaddict I wouldn't hold off. Commence with any plans you had (I remember the style new style you where planning) go ahead with that because if this is stopping you then you are in for a long wait.

Personally, there is no good reason to hold off in revamping AA. Just some advice because I sense you are wanting to do a little re-vamping but holding off which I think you shouldn't not for other peoples incompetence, lack of imagination anyway.

 

You're right Shelley. I think we might as well do some fun changes and re-hauling now and just stick with it for a while. That gives the world around us (i.e. vBulletin) time to grow into whatever it is meant to be.

Also, I updated my post with a nice timeline of events.

 

As far as I can assess it from a pure end-user/admin-point-of-view, vb4 is not much more than a new skin, which doesn´t give me an overwhelming impression. I don´t need the cms, own the blog-addon already, which is useless for upgrading and the experience tells me, that the genuine forum-features are mostly used by my members.

But on the other side - as mentioned above - the .org-addons are unique and my members got used to all neat modifications, which enhance the usability and the fun.

So I´m feeling in a catch22-situation: I´m eyeing at ipb, but hesitate to make the step, cause it´ll be painful somehow and my members will loose a good deal of addon-functionality they got used to. My learning curve with vbulletin increased significantly in the last two years and my enthusiasm for adding mods is now my fate.

I felt highly comfortable with vb in the past, but the whole vb4-upgrade-mess is like loosing a good friend for me. So I tend to stick to vb384, but will think about it every once in a while.

 

I hate to say, but +1 here.

 

Sadly, + another 1 here

 

It's certainly giving me headaches regarding justifying the upgrade. I have many modifications, quite a few of which I wrote myself and have no idea how I did them! The very thought of this upgrade fills me with dread. That and the styling, I just don't understand the new code and have no idea where to even start. And as has been said, for the end user there is not very much.

So I am just not thinking about it until the Gold release comes out. No point trying to do anything just yet.

 

Another +1.

I'm waiting for Gold before I even look at the code.

 

Re: What I don't like about vB 4

I'm surprised Nick, you know I've always viewed you as being a very stern supporter of vBulletin, we've even had out little disagreements on vBulletin.com because it. So to now read you saying this speaks volumes to me, much more so than another person saying it.

And no, there is nothing wrong with you being honest as Admin here. If that's your view, then that's your view!

 

Re: What I don't like about vB 4

You're right, mrgtb - I was a stern supporter of vBulletin. I still am, for version 3.8.x and anything else the good development team worked on. IB's work? Pfft, it's rubbish to me. I have absolutely no respect for IB, to be completely honest. They have trashed Jelsoft as we knew it and have set up a bad name for themselves. It's not like people scream with excitement when they hear "Internet Brands" anyways.

I'm glad you caught onto this. It's a shame that IB doesn't have this skill, and they don't take anything their customers say with more than a grain of salt. Best wishes to them, I say - it will catch up to them soon enough.

 

Well you only have to look at my own activity on vBulletin these days, which is pretty zero now, apart from the odd occasion like last night. A big change from my usual daily posts made there!

Your right Nick, IB have trashed vBulletin. It's been a bit sad really to see all the old users I was so used to interacting with on vBulletin all but gone. All I see there now mainly is new faces more and more. When IB took over something went for me, out went the family feel, in came to corporate idealism. I'm going to rant about things, I'll just say I don't like vBulletin 4 for an awful lot of reasons.

However, I do think they will succeed with vBulletin 4 in the future, mainly because the new blood coming in now knows no different from before. But as for old users like me and you, we do know better, and most of the other old users I knew have long gone already.

Now I better go hide before Lynne come here. :nailbite:

 

After taking the time to review things, my initial thoughts are pretty mixed.

On one hand, I don't think the templating system is that difficult to adapt to at first glance. I do, however, come from a decent CSS-heavy background. I'm actually in the process of re-doing my company's website with clean tableless HTML. I certainly don't claim to be a guru, but I can handle most tasks and learn those that I don't know with CSS fairly quickly. Anytime you change template systems, you're going to have a lag with the switch, and there will be a curve. I wouldn't say the system is an improvement with the CMS added in, but it's nota step back or same-story kind of thing. In that sense, the design is "better" to me.

From a default skin standpoint, I personally don't think vBulletin was ever much. IPB had it out-designed going back to the free days. I still prefer the default style of almost any board to vB. I like aspects of this new skin, but I don't love it. It's like it was on its way to being good but got lost about half way. Given that the price is going up, I need a better product.

Functionality-wise for the forum, this is a glorified skin change. I don't really see anything new. I don't agree with the sentiments that they just changed text to make it seem new - I personally feel that "Settings" is much eaiser to comprehend than "User CP." I had actually changed the phrase on my forum to "My Profile." So I think it's a little bit unfair to say that they're trying to palm off a change.

I haven't used IPB's new CMS (just ordered a copy for a new project), but IP Blog beats the vB Blog hands down. Judging by Matt's Twitter, that disparity is only going to widen. I have a real appreciation for how Matt Mecham conducts himself on Twitter and shows the new features and such. He seems to be the antithesis to IB. He doesn't feel staged, and seems genuinely excited about his work. I love that.

I don't want to get too far off topic, though, so I'll return to vB. All in all I think the CMS and blog features are nice and work well for my site. I just don't really think this product - at a beta stage - is a $250-$285 script. The SEO feels half-assed for lack of a better term (it just looks ugly and there are functionality issues with the "best" setting. Keep in mind a beta can fix this...) I like the look of the profile area, but there's nothing new and the actual functionality is average at best.

Being a UI guy, vB sits at average or maybe even a bit. It's not much of a match for IPB and lacks the innovation that came with IPB 3. There's just nothing really new. The IPB admin beats it out now. Like Nick, I feel like this is a product that's on its way down. It's close for me right now, but whereas vB was the forum solution - it's just not anymore.

It seems to me IB bought vB with the intention of developing a totally new product. They just don't seem to get or understand that while forums do need to be integrated with a CMS, blogs, etc., the forums still need to be improved upon. Try having this discussion in a comment section or on social media - it just doesn't work and that's what forums have going for them.

As of this point, any new projects for me will be IPB. vB will have to show me something better than this. And, while we are still in beta, let's face it that beta products don't change that much. They tend to add a few things here and there, but they also tend to focus mostly on fixing bugs, which this product definitely has right now.

 

mrgtb will Nick's post do, or should I seek the other negative reviews I've found for vB4?

 

3 days of playing around with the beta on my localhost and I've moved to a life raft because the vBulletin ship is sinking. It's too bad, I've used vBulletin for 8 years now and have never wavered and they managed to undo that in less than 3 months.

 

Well for me, its a costly move to goto 4.0 at this time. Custom skinning, custom mods, if they can even be created at this point, just to give my users certain features they are accustomed to.

I may buy an IPB license to see what they have to offer. I'd rather give them money then IB at this point. Its tough decision time here, but im stick with 3.7 for now and see how this plays out in the coming months.

 

I just upgraded my testbed to vB4 Forum.