The Burning Question

Yup... I remember. Some people forget, vBulletin had plenty of issues under Kier's rule... But things are a bit different now. Kier is the boss and does not have a support staff behind him like wayne luke and steve machol, et al. In business, there is a real important factor... Customer / Public relations. IB handled this poorly with vB 4. Kier hasnt learned anything either.

The trouble with the fanbois...... I feel like I'm talking to a tea party member when I talk to them. They have half or less of the facts, consider nothing that doesnt support what they WANT to be the facts, and consider everyone else to be completely stupid. The vast majority of them (that I have seen) wouldnt know how to make a successful community if their life depended on it. They talk like the know all the details including some you dont, when in reality they have made most of the details up in their own minds.

If I am IB, I am hoping XF shuts down (however its done) and the fanbois run to IPB and drive them nuts over there. Its kind of like how the Tea Party and Birthers are giving most republicans fits because they are making all the rest of the republicans look nuts in many voter's minds...

 

They could always start their own software...

 

That's right, I had almost forgotten - you're an ACLU card carrying liberal. Now I remember why I have never given anything you say any credence.

You know, the sad part about all this is you people have no idea (well, some of you do which makes it even sadder) what is really going on in Kier and Mike's lives right now. It's not my place to speak of them, so I won't, other than to say that there are some things in life much more important than dealing with any of the perceived wrongs you all are "suffering" from or even just wasting valuable time replying to your "concerns". Good grief, coming here is like turning on something like The View and trying to keep from laughing and hurling something at those dolt women on the TV at the same time lol.

But, by all means, you guys carry on with your "discussion" lol. It does make for good reading when I'm on the toilet trying to conjure up a good dump.

 

Nope, im not a card carrying ACLU member. Although there is nothing wrong with being one. I'm actually a moderate, not that that would matter in this conversation. Thanks for the direct personal attack however.. I appreciate being able to give MY opinion, which is one of the things the ACLU is around to ensure... They have also defended your right not to give my opinion any credence. Although you woudlnt know it by the time you took to type out that response...

That said... I could care less what is going on in Kier & Mike's life right now. They started and run a business which has customers depending on them. If their personal life is getting in the way, thats TOO BAD. If they dont like the lawsuit then maybe they shouldnt have dove into the deep end of the pond. I know that sounds harsh, but that's the business world. If you cant take the heat then get out of the kitchen.

BTW, I have zero needs from Kier & Mike. I never switched anything to Xenforo because I was not and still am not confident they can deliver long term.

 

I do too Bob, and who's to say that isn't what is happening now? One thing's for sure, time will tell. As far as Mike goes, I'm sure he wouldn't care that it be known he is in the midst of planning to get married in July, so his time and attention is pretty well focused on that event.

 

I got married and managed somhow to keep m buciness running smoothly. Thanks by the way for directly demonstrating my point about how fanbois are. They are 100% right and listen to nothing else that contridicts their opinion.

 

So, you're just in it for the fun of it then? Just like you're fond of pointing out to others at vB, if you don't have a dog in the fight, what are your reasons for spreading FUD exactly?

Fanbois, huh? LOL, hardly. What I am, is just a guy trying to eek out a living. I am most certainly not tied to any one group or product, just ones that suit my needs best.

 

I have a dog in the fight, I just have zero needs from Kier & Mike individually.

 

So what's this thing you both know about then? Just read AWS saying he caught a tweet about something and John saying he knowns. Any chance some light can be shed on this, have a feeling I know what it might be anyway, but it's not something I want to mention if correct and I've been through the same myself if being right?

Somebody mentioned it ages ago, but didn't know how much truth was in it then. Kind of made sense though for the MIA of Kier at the time, and it can effect different people quite adversely in different ways. All I'll say, is I'm not talking about an illness here, something more personal.

 

It really doesn't matter what the issue is. There is absolutely No requirement for anyone running a business to go into details of personal issues that may be affecting them.

There *is*, however, the requirement to do the right thing by paying customers, customers who in many cases have their business depending on yours. You either have to carry on somehow, or you have to throw in the towel and say "look guys, I'm sorry, for reasons I don't want to go into, I can't do this any more, so I'm closing/selling it".

To just keep people in utter silence and yet arrange to censor any discussion of it, is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Whatever the cause of this, they have permanently destroyed all confidence in their business among a huge swathe of it. there is no going back from that.

It's kind of like v3Arcade used to be. When John owned it he would develop frantically for long periods, before vanishing *completely* for even longer periods. Then he'd abruptly reappear, claim it was personal issues that got in the way, but he'd declare himself permanently back. Then after a while he'd repeat the whole cycle. After a time, people begun to realise that they had no confidence in him, and eventually he sold the project to Brian (vBA). Now in this case it didn't massively matter, because it was a free product (although there was some paid support being sold which caused problems) and anyone affected just moved on. No harm done, that's the risk you take with free stuff and people like me were just grateful to John for the awesome work he DID do. But when it's a proper, paid-up commercial venture, you just cannot get away with this sort of thing and hope to retain any credibility.

 

John this amounts to "nah nah I'm a friend of Kier & Mike and I know what's really going but I'm not telling you, ha ha".
If you're truly a friend you wouldn't even mention that you knew anything, you're just heaping more pain on them. I'll be honest, I'm surprised you've stooped to that level really.

As has been pointed out dozens of times now, most people aren't interested in knowing the gory details of what the problem is, they just want the team of people they have paid good money to to come out and say what the implications for the product and the service are. Nothing more. To not do so, no matter how serious the personal problems are, shows contempt for a lot of people who bought into that product on the back of the faith they had in those two people.

 

Personal problems are not good, I can sympathise greatly with people suffering from them. But there's something you can't escape though, which Mark has rightly touched on himself. The world around you still goes on, nothing stands still just because you've got issues and especially not in the world of running your own business. Luckily for KAM they could get away with it while Kier took a break, simple because it's not as though they was self-employed plasterers or bricklayers. Which would have meant, not going out to work - means no money getting earned. People could still buy licenses earning them money while Kier took a break. There's a big difference in that respect here!

Also I agree with Mark, in that things could have handled much better. Sometimes it's best to come out and be honest with people. At the time Kier first went missing there was a buzz on XenForo, he really should have posted at least telling people himself he had some personal issues ongoing and was taking a break for a while, just try and tell people as much as he felt he could putting customers in the picture that first week. People would have respected that more from him, and things wouldn't have spiralled out of control like they did soon after.

Myself, if it's what I'm thinking it is. I would have actually have told customers about it. Saying I need a break to get my life sorted out over the coming few weeks or a month. Yes, I would have told them because sooner or later it will come out anyway, I'd sooner them hear it from me first hand, not to mention your being totally honest and up-front with people about things. And when running a business sadly you have to be that way, you can't afford not to be!

But to remain silent saying nothing keeping your customers guessing, just isn't the way to do business. Sorry, but it isn't and they should know this already. What makes matters worse now, we're talking 3 months later and still they are all hiding in the shadows, there's no excuse for it anymore, not 3 months on. And we're not talking about Kier alone anymore, but all 3 of them. That cannot be excuse running a business that way, like they left Brogan holding the candle for months before leaving. Simply because he got fed up of being asked questions and couldn't give any answers back due to KAM not telling him anything. The customers always has to come first in any business, it's a golden rule most successful businesses stick by. Ignore it and you won't last long!

 

GTB, you really shouldn't post about me as it is almost invariably incorrect.

I will say though that reading your comments over the last few months has been entertaining if nothing else.

 

Well in that case then, your kind of contradicting yourself. Because what I said, is based on what you've said yourself before. :nono:

You said in the past that they wouldn't tell you anything and why you have nothing to pass on. Your words, not mine!

 

You're absoloutely right on that point, we DON'T know, which is why in the absence of any facts or information we are left to assume the worst (an awful human trait).

It may shock the fanbois to know that most people, which includes me, would be extremely sympathetic in the event of it being personal problems affecting both Mike and Kier, if only we actually knew what was going on. Do we have a right to know? Probably not. But is it the right thing to be open and transparent with your paying customers if something is crippling your ability to work? Probably yes. That's a personal opinion, others won't agree.

I had no idea Mike was planning to get married. If only he had just posted to say, he won't be around much as he's planning his big day. I would have been one of many congratulating him and then proceding to STFU about him not posting.

But it should not be left to other people, third parties posting gossip or third hand information, to make excuses for them. Either one of them going out of action and with no communication is one thing, but for them both to take a step back and not let us know why is such a shame.

I can't personally envisage any personal issues that are so taboo they cannot be posted about but I am starting to feel bad to keep banging on about this subject here in this forum. It would be so awful to find out later what's "going on" and then think, "S*** if I'd known that, I wouldn't have posted that, I would have offered to help".

Maybe this is turning into a learning process not just for Xenforo staff but for their customers too. I am totally convinced that if either Kier or Mike turned to their community and said "Look guys, we have a real problem, and it's this..." they would have a huge outpouring of genuine friendship and concern and offers of help - something money cannot buy.

 

Where did I say that?

I know exactly what has gone on.
The fact that I said I couldn't say anything does not mean I didn't have anything to say.

 

Jeez, I hate to sound unsympathetic and all. But they ain't the only people in the world suffering from personal problems, some people in 3rd world countries are starving to death and dying from basic curable diseases through no fault of their own. Let's get things in a little perspective here - please!

People are splitting up each day, losing their jobs each day, losing family members each day, having their house repossessed each day. The list goes on and on. Let's not keep stroking KAM ego's feeling sorry for them, I can think of others to feel much more sorry for I listed first.

 

KAM probably deleted it, they deleted most of what you last said there.