The Burning Question

Naah the fan boys will carry on defending the situation, telling everyone how it doesn't matter as the product works, who needs updated, they are busy with the lawsuit and working in secret, blah blah blah de blah.

 

Your probably right, expect that will be the case from fan boys. But there will be some who'll take it as being lied too by KAM. Suddenly realizing why that announcement was so vague in not telling the whole truth. Plus if Mike is still there developing with Kier, then there's really no reason it shouldn't be released on time anyway within Q2? It's not like they've been busy on the forums for months. So if not released the question of Mike being there comes into play again, and the only reason you'd expect a delay is Mike Sullivan being gone. Other than that, if he is still there. Then obviously they are waiting for something to come off, something making further development of XenForo pointless.

But anyway, that's pure speculation and we'll see what happens in 4 weeks or less, time will tell one way or another. Still think there will be many complaining if not coming by then, and If I still had access there. Know for sure I'd be asking, and asking again if ignored or locked. People won't take kindly waiting 3+ months expecting XenForo 1.2 arrive, then suddenly find it's not doing. Not when the devs could have given them a "heads-up" about it previously.

 

It's possible that all of our suspicions are true. It is also possible they are not, and it is possible that they (Kier, Mike and Ashley) are simply being stubborn when it comes to pandering to all the rumours, hence the lack of posts to put our minds at rest. I do agree if the latter is true they are playing with fire, every day that goes by another customer loses interest, it is a mistake to stick by a "point of principle" where customers - who pay your wages - are concerned.

I don't agree threads are closed on Xenforo because of "uncomfortable truths". They are closed to head off the silly arguments that flare up between the realists (us) and the fantastists (the fanbois). I do not disagree with that moderation policy on a company site, in any case we can post elsewhere. We know that although not many people post here, many many more are reading it. I also do not think we should make this personal against Slavik, he is in a no-win situation.

I am happy to wait until the end of June and see what happens. While I think any kind of release seems unlikely based on the evidence so far, it would make my day to be proved wrong, because I have invested in Xenforo and want to see it continue. Quite how they will repair the lost goodwill of customers is another matter.

And for the fanbois, I will repeat the facts. Mike has not posted since March 20th. Kier has not posted since May 15th. Ashley has not posted since May 7th. Fanbois will tells us they are "developing", we will respond with "Just because they say development is ongoing when they are forced to say something to stop a riot doesn't mean that is a fact - and in any case, how do you explain why two very active posters both go MIA in turn?". Brogan has hinted at problems with some of his posts.

Probably what will happen is on or around June 30th Kier or Ashley will post to say the release has been delayed but is "ongoing" and "ready when it is ready", which will have the usual effect of making the fanbois all cream their pants and run off and buy lots of new licences to support the cause, and "normality" in Xenforo terms will be restored.

 

I'm only joking mentioning Slavik, as you say he just there in the fire-line like Brogan was before him. I've nothing against Slavik at all, I don't against anyone else for that matter at XenForo. Just airing some views is all, nothing is on a personal level to me, never has been. Why should it be, it's just forum software at the end of the day?

 

So anyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically a fan boy?

I actually started following this mythological saga when Keir the Grey went 'missing' and all the Orks started piping up about how the 'precious' XenForo would fall against the evil might of 'Eye-B'

In fact I started to genuinely wonder if Kier the Grey really had been corrupted by 'Eye-B' and gone over to the dark side again. I mean he was logging into vB but not into XF so even I thought it was a little suspicious.

Then Mr Darby returned as Kier the White and I thought all's well but suddenly people started talking about lack of announcements, Two were made and then suddenly Mike (who we were peviously told had been abandoned by Kier) is now the one who has left. But oh wait Mike is sick of the speculation and prefers to login in invisible mode but is still dealing with tickets! How dare he!

I'll bet if Mike and Kier post tomorrow then people will say but Ashley hasnt posted for X number of days. Then if Ashley posts and Mike is still posting it will be back to Kier not having posted for X number of days.

Now if I was KAM, I would not let a bunch of rumour mongers dictate how much time I spend posting or not posting on a forum or what announcements I make or dont make. What a completely ridiculous assertion that a dev must post once every day and must keep giving repeated updates just to keep rumour mongers happy.

We're 4 weeks away from a new release so it makes perfect sense to roll any maintenance releases into 1.2 (if 1.2 materialises). I dont know about you guys but I used to hate the repeated releases from the likes of vBulletin. I check the bug forum and if there is anything that might affect my site then I implement the fix. If not I dont bother. This isn't for everyone but it seems to satisfy most.

The so-called 'fanbois' will voice concerns if and when 1.2 doesnt come out, I myself am not certain that 1.2 will be released but up till now XF have done nothing to make me think they wont deliver. The only people who take you guys seriously are yourselves.

I was taken in by your speculation at first but the more I read, the more I realised how you keep changing the goalposts every time KAM fulfill one of your requirements. What I've come to realise is that you'll never be satisfied as a few of you have openly admitted a dislike for Kier Darby which overrides anything KAM will say or do.

They could come and cook you guys dinner and one of you would say, I dont think Kier offered Mike any gravy or I dont think Mike shared his chips with Ashley. Then this would be seen as proof that XenForo is dying!!

 

And what requirements have they fulfilled? From what I see, they have NOT filled one to date, unless you mean those vague messages posted by them? Which in my book don't fill anything. I said post news about XenForo 1.2, they haven't done that. Only thing I've read is "development is ongoing", but for what, a new Blog, some new shoes their making, what?

Not trying to be sarcastic, but that can mean anything and links to nothing in specific. They could turn around later if XenForo 1.2 isn't released and say, well we never actually said we was working on it. Which they haven't said. For all you know, they could turn around in a week or two saying, here's a maintenance update for the current XenForo version used now, we'll start work next on 1.2 again. And "development is ongoing" covers that perfectly. Why do you think I wanted to see them make a direct link with XenForo 1.2?

No, not at all.

 

Why are we "four weeks away from a release" anyway?

Even if the devs hadn't gone silent and all was normal, all they ever said was they hoped to have 1.2 out in Q2. It was never any more than that, and those people who sit there saying "it's midnight, where is it?" are deluded and no absolutely nothing about software development. The same thing happens on vBulletin and I daresay everywhere else too.

The issue is NOT the lack of releases, that's just a manifestation of the symptoms. the issue is the sudden and complete silence, and the thinly disguised turmoil at the company.

If the normal levels of enthusiastic participation in the forums was still going on, few people would give a hoot if the proposed release schedule slips.

 

Anyhow, I'm bored with trying to justify perfectly legitimate concerns. If people want to believe all is well when it perfectly clearly isn't, that's up to them.

"I see no ships!"

 

Exactly, it was their decision to start going missing. Fair enough, Kier said he had personal problems. But what about Mike, Ashley and Brogan going missing later, come on. And even after Kier came back, he more or less right away went missing again with the others. So who's to blame for the mess we see now, apart from themselves. Things was going great before, then for some bizarre reason everything suddenly went tit's up with them all?

 

It is abundantly clear they have abandoned it and it is probably lost to Internet Brands now through some sort of settlement. Or maybe they are just going to leave it open a while getting licence money in and then eventually pull the plug. I don't know. Something's up though, something is seriously up. Perhaps it's "musical differences" between the developers. Perhaps they have realised that they cannot fight IB any longer as there is not enough money and it will bankrupt them. Who knows? But something must be wrong, why would they knowingly destroy their business in this way otherwise?

 

Look at THIS as well. Stuart and Kier and friends of old. Kier helped them do a XF-like style for vB 3.8 to ease the transition, and it seemed Kier was going to assist with the migration too. Which would make sense if they are friends. Now Stuart is vaguely hoping to hire a good coder at a reasonable rate to make the conversion. I think it's possible to read into that that the conversion isn't going to happen just yet.

Stuart's excellent site (AV forums) is not a hobby site, it's a business site that generates full time income for him and his staff. That's not something he's going to put at risk in a hurry, I'd be *amazed* if he hasn't had second thoughts about changing to XF.

I have a lot of respect for Stuart's views. Both my last changes of host have been pretty much confirmed by discovering his site was using the same host. So it's be interesting to know his thoughts on it, because that'd be pretty much "the real deal" as far as I am concerned. If he came out and actually moved to XenForo - then it should allay a great many fears.

 

One thing makes me think it's not lost to Internet Brands. Think if that was the case, they'd have asked them to lock that court-case thread and avoid anymore bashing taking place of vBulletin in the meantime. But that's still openly happening at XenForo, so I don't think it's a settlement with them, more likely if anything making themselves bankrupt if (worst came to worst). I actually don't think Kier would hand XenForo over to them, think he'd sooner go the other route and make sure they get their hands on nothing of XenForo.

I've read recently about AV Forums, it's unclear if they are still going ahead with the conversion or not? Even if they did, I still wouldn't read a great deal into that one, who's to say Stuart still wouldn't do it anyway? After all he's using vBulletin 3 I presume which is AOL in itself. Kier recently converted his own spacebattles forum from vB3 to XenForo. Same line of thinking really, that maybe it's still worth doing if running vB3 and you've no intentions of moving up to vB4. Which many don't have!

 

Stuart's running a highly customised vB3, even a stock vB3 is hardly AOL, it's a perfectly viable platform. I prefer vb4 myself but if I was forced to use vB3 for a new site tomorrow I could make a perfectly viable job of it. The underlying code is not much different from vb4.

 

I know a lot of mods are used at AV Forums, remember reading that side of things would have to there converted in XenForo before moving the forums over to it. A little like Digital Point forums really, Shawn is doing the same thing and still plans to move over to XenForo from vBulletin 4. I guess it depends how handy Stuart is at doing things himself like Shawn? But it's sure not stopping Shawn from moving Digital Point forums over to XenForo last I read, he's still doing it and why I'm saying I really wouldn't read too much into AV Forums doing the same thing still.

 

No, and yet again you are completely missing the point. Disagreement and debate is healthy and what should happen with any community. It is how progress is made. But when a hardcore of people repeatedly troll and trash threads that express a dissenting opinion, they become "fan boys" (or fanbois to use the poetic term) particularly when any other viewpoint is censored. Fanbois are also impossible to reason with, since they are unable to see clear and plain evidence of anything wrong and instead stick to the "company line".

How do you know this? If he is invisible what proof do you have he is doing anything at all? You don't. You are the one now speculating.

No, why would we? Have you actually read any of the arguments we have put forward?

What assertion? Who said they should post daily and when/where did they post this? We are only stating that it is highly unusual for someone not to post since March, and pointing out that Kier's "return" was not actually a return. He had a spate of posts and then stopped posting again. If you don't feel that's unusual that's fine, it's your right to have your own opinion.

No we are not. Where does it say anywhere we are four weeks from a new release? Again you seem to be the one speculating. We only know the devs mentioned a release in Q2 and we are simply saying we are less than a month from the end of that period.

With all that has happened on Xenforo and more importantly, what is not happening, if you don't see that as worrying or a cause for concern, I'm amazed. But please do remember that a customer base is a wide spectrum of opinions all of which to some degree are valid. Most of the opinions and concerns we have are rooted in the actions or inactions of the Xenforo staff. We do not just wake up one morning and think "I know I'll start a new thread moaning about something".

No we are not. We are not saying anything (well I am certainly not) since I/we first posted in this forum. The core points are exactly the same.

 

There's always plenty chips and gravy to go around, no need to share. Although, not sure how chips and gravy got brought into this? :idk:

 

Pass the popcorn someone...

 

Oh hi Brogan.

 

Run out of popcorn, but I'm enjoying this glass of cloudy lemonade with ice.

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