The Burning Question

Discussion in 'XenForo Discussions' started by AWS, May 13, 2012.

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  1. AWS

    AWS Administrator

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    Are you an attorney and know this as fact?

    Lets drop the non-compete for a minute. I myself think it will not have any bearing on the case.

    What this case will be about is what was planned and laid out for future versions of vbulletin were used in xenforo. Theft of ideas and trade secrets is what will be the focus.

    I said this before and I'll say it again. You can read and interpret the case files found online all you want. They are nothing more than posturing for position. The real meat and potatoes are in the depositions. These will not be on Pacer so no one except the person being deposed, the lawyers, parties involved in the suit, court reporter and judge will see them. Most times after the judge reviews the depositions one of 2 things happens.

    The case is dismissed because the judge found the claims held no merit after reading the depositions..
    A settlement is reached.

    Take off the rose colored glasses and stop fixating on the non compete.
     
    AWS, Jun 10, 2012
    #481
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  2. Joeychgo

    Joeychgo Regular Member

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    GO see Richmond Technologies, Inc. v. Aumtech Business Solutions, No. 11-CV-02460-LHK, 2011 WL 2607158 --- California Northern District Court decision found that a non-compete clause could be used to bar an ex-employee’s use of a previous employer’s trade secrets. Since KAM were clearly knowlegable as to future planned VB development, those trade secrets would have been used at least peripherally by KAM while developing Xenforo.

    Also, dont forget, this goes to a jury if not settled... And US juries do wierd things sometimes. OJ was guilty right? Casey Anthoney was guilty too right? Both walked free. Its not a stretch to believe KAM used trade secrets to develop Xenforo, and I bet there is at least one person prepared to testify that K, A or M told them "just wait, my forum software is coming soon" - and that may be enough to be called soliciting customers. Hell, just opening the company forums and explaining the coming software might be enough to demonstrate that. And people like their moderators might be considered their "agents" and if they told someone about the product, that might be enough also.
     
    Joeychgo, Jun 10, 2012
    #482
  3. goob6969

    goob6969 Inactive

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    Joey is trying to assert exactly that, just read his post.

    Are you realy this stupid? I'll be blunt and to the point. Your wrong. Your understanding of the law is wrong. Your understanding of employement law is wrong. Your understanding of juristiction is wrong.



    Who gives a shit if its moral or not. UK law is very specific on this matter. So once again i'll spell it out for you so you wont be able to understand it. You are wrong. Under UK law and the UK contracts they signed with a UK company which is now a UK division of a US parent company.

    Once again. UK law takes presidence because UK law is VERY specific about employment. And under UK Law what they did was entirely within the criteria of non-compete.



    When did you get an insight into Xenforos finances? Oh wait, you didn't so stop spouting more shit.

    As for your anti-trust concerns. Even XenForo's own lawyers are saying as much. Nuff said realy?
     
    goob6969, Jun 10, 2012
    #483
  4. Peggy

    Peggy Regular Member

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    I think you're wrong Joey.
    The non-compete clause, no matter who they signed it with, is not enforceable beyond one year.
    It was well beyond the 1 yr when they released XF for sale.

    Second, XF code has been searched, dug through, and torn apart, and no one yet has been able to prove that any part of vBulletin code was stolen, copied, or otherwise used to create XenForo.

    vBulletin's one and only reason for suing KAM is to do away with a competitor. Drag it out til there's nothing left standing, either business-wise or personally. You know it and I know it. And imo, it's morally and ethically wrong.
     
    Peggy, Jun 10, 2012
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  5. Peggy

    Peggy Regular Member

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    and I wonder why at least 2 of those employees who were going to testify to these "facts" have now refused to do so?
    hmmmm...
     
    Peggy, Jun 10, 2012
    #485
  6. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    You did take note his post came after mine "saying the same thing", yes? :lmao:

    Your just grasping at straws now in trying to annoy people, but your making yourself look a fool.
     
    GTB, Jun 10, 2012
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  7. Peggy

    Peggy Regular Member

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    goob, can you calm down please? There really is no reason to be insulting and start the name-calling. So far this has been a pretty calm debate and I'd like to see it go back to being so. Name calling is so immature.
     
    Peggy, Jun 10, 2012
    #487
  8. Lizard King

    Lizard King Regular Member

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    The UK case is on hold because IB was requested to deposit a big sum of money to UK legal system in case they loose the case. No other country then US allows big companies dry up small companies with lawyer costs. Therefor the money advantage of IB is not going to exist in UK case or any other case they can start against parties outside of US.
     
    Lizard King, Jun 10, 2012
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  9. AWS

    AWS Administrator

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    Peggy it isn't about the code. It's about stealing ideas or using trade secrets. I have no doubt that none of the code in xenforo is from vbulletin. I do have doubt that some things that were discussed for vbulletin future versions are in xenforo. Hence why I think the lawsuit was filed and does hold water.

    goob69, I'll ask again. Are you an attorney and do you work in the IP field?
     
    AWS, Jun 10, 2012
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  10. AWS

    AWS Administrator

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    I thought the UK case was put on, hold by request of both parties, by the judge pending the outcome of the U.S. case.
     
    AWS, Jun 10, 2012
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  11. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    So did I also, that's what I read said in that court case thread on XenForo. Didn't see any mention of what Lizard King is saying? But then I don't follow it day to day, post to post. If this has been said later on.
     
    GTB, Jun 10, 2012
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  12. Lizard King

    Lizard King Regular Member

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    Within last month , both parties agreed not to pursue UK case till the end of US case however IB was requested to deposit the money over a year ago and they denied it. That's the reason UK case is on hold as without IB depositing that money , case won't move further.

    Don't get me wrong guys but it also clearly shows that many of you are speaking on subjects you are not fully aware of.

    And for everyone's information , yes IB has a right to sue if they feel their rights are violated. I personally never questioned why IB sue'd Xenforo .

    I can only say one thing , Truth has a bad habbit , even you try to hide the truth , it always find a way to show itself to everyone. Hopefully the truth will come out one day about this case.
     
    Lizard King, Jun 10, 2012
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  13. goob6969

    goob6969 Inactive

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    entry70438

    Before your post


    Just like you've been doing for the last 6 months?

    Yea I will, AWS delete my account. I can't be bothered to discuss this any further. You claim I look at it with rose tints, I say these people are looking at it with blindfolds on and make it up as they go along.
     
    goob6969, Jun 10, 2012
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  14. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    What did we say? You sound like Floris! :shrug:
     
    GTB, Jun 10, 2012
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  15. AWS

    AWS Administrator

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    Can't you answer a simple question? Are you an attorney? A simple yes or no will suffice.
     
    AWS, Jun 10, 2012
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  16. Peggy

    Peggy Regular Member

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    As I said in my post above.... at least 2 people who were going to testify to this "fact" have since refused to testify.
    As for trade secrets, oh please. What trade secrets could they possibly steal? Just about every forum software uses the same trade "secrets".

    Look I don't agree with a LOT of what Kier has done. I haven't even talked to him but maybe once or twice since I stepped down from staff. But in my gut, I feel that the lawsuit is wrong. IB is wrong. The entire purpose of this lawsuit is to drain them financially so they'll have one less competitor.
     
    Peggy, Jun 10, 2012
    #496
  17. Joeychgo

    Joeychgo Regular Member

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    Im not going to waste my time with Goob anymore.... I dont like to overfeed the trolls.


    Peggy - It isnt about the code specifically, at least how I am suggesting it. What I am suggesting is that KAM knew of (and helped plan I'm sure) the future of vBulletin's products. When you do product development, you plan several years out things like new features, broad strokes of how things might work, etc. KAM would have at least had this information in their mind while developing Xenforo. Further, by putting up the Xenforo forums and talking about the product, I suspect that might be argued to demonstrate solicitation of current vB customers.

    Damn, there is like 9 replies already while I typed this...
     
    Joeychgo, Jun 10, 2012
    #497
  18. goob6969

    goob6969 Inactive

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    No I am not a licensed attourney.

    I am however an 8 year student of law and probably have considerably more knowlegde than any person on this board on the matter.
     
    goob6969, Jun 10, 2012
    #498
  19. AWS

    AWS Administrator

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    GTB that's what happens when a person comes into a topic with their chest all puffed out and starts talking as if they are an expert on the topic.

    Someone asks for credentials and instead of answering they go on a rant and ask for their account to be deleted and their posts to be removed so not to show how ignorant of the facts they really are.

    Seen it happen time and time again. It's tough for a person to defend their views when they don't know what they talk about. Especially when not in the comfort of others that think like them.
     
    AWS, Jun 10, 2012
    #499
  20. goob6969

    goob6969 Inactive

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    Cheers, i'll take this of your acceptance that you know your wrong :)
     
    goob6969, Jun 10, 2012
    #500
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