The Burning Question

I am sorry i don't know you so i will simply have to ask. What gives you right to judge everyone's actions ?
You pay for a script and the script is delivered to you. After that it is your choice to use that script or will continue to use in future.
Many things can effect their lives.

Did you ever get sue'd for nothing by billion dollar company ?
Did you ever faced the stress that it can create within your family ?
Did you ever accused of many different things ?
etc..

These questions can go on and on forever. Imo the biggest mistake Kier and Mike did was trying to be friends with community. When they do this , everyone felt the right that they can judge everyone around. Unfortunately none of us have right to do that. It is simple truth.

You can criticize script , you can criticize their professionalism but you can't accuse them with things they did or not. You can't create conspiracy theories about people and destroy or attack their business.

If Xenforo will go bankrupt , it will be Kier , Mike and Ashley's choice. It is their company , i am sorry but none of you have any right to tell what they should do. They are not kids , they are grown up people.

If Xenforo will succeed , it will again be Kier , Mike and Ashley's choice. It is simple as that , show respect to other people's choice on things they own or their lives.

Again all you need to do is just a little Empathy

Don't forget you already get what you paid for and the money you pay doesn't grant you any additional right. Your right's are clearly highlighted in XenForo License Agreement.

 

Saying JUST ONE THING you didnt like made me xenforo hater in your eyes? Wow...

You are right, you obviously have no idea who you are talking to - that makes your post points uncalled for and thus invalid.

 

No, what he said was your comment was completely lacking in compassion and it was regardless of you summarily dismissing him and his viewpoint. But, you are correct, we have no idea who you are other than what your profile says...an IPB user. Leads me to believe you are just taking an opportunity to bash the competition.

 

How do you know for sure they are getting sued for nothing? Not trying to get at XenForo or take sides here, but there's one aspect of the court case I cannot agree with XenForo on (and we're all entitled to an opinion). Included in it, is that they broke contractual agreement signed with IB and got paid extra money not to develop another forum software within the first 12 months after leaving employment (sure it's listed against them still). Yet very shortly after 12 months past, XenForo got released. How did they create XenForo in such a short time-scale from scratch, we're talking roughly one month at most. For me, that's just isn't possible.

I was mistaken above.

Yes, it is their choice to make. What makes you think we're telling them "they cannot go bankrupt", that talking daft? I've personally never said such a thing, and it's their choice and little people can do if things end up that way. Bad things happen, I can sure accept that one no problem if ever happening to KAM. There's nothing you can do about it anyway as a customer, but accept it.

 

Their non-compete agreement was not with IB but Jelsoft, it did not pay them to not develop a competing product either Gary. Maybe you should go back and take a closer look at the doc's on Shamil's site. Regardless, it's well established non-compete's are not worth the paper they're printed on as far as the courts are concerned...even in a state as liberal as California.

 

I have compassion for them as people, but I wont stretch that over way they are doing their business.

Sometimes I have problems beliveing into other people maturity.

No better arguments than attacking me on basis of software I use?

 

You clearly lack the intelligence to understand these claims properly...

 

I'm not arguing with you, you are the one trying to make things personal. I'm simply pointing out your potential bias.

 

I clearly missed a lot while I was sleeping today.

 

Shooting fast and missing hard. If you look back into my posts, sometimes I take XF's side, I also speak of (and use) other softwares that are not listed in my forum profile.

 

Just been looking and it seems your correct, I take back what I said before in that case then. I was wrong!

 

Pretty much summarises it.

You make sweeping claims and accusations and present them as fact without knowing the real facts.

This is why nobody takes your arguements seriously.

 

Compassion.....? Compassion!!!? This is about business, not friendship. In business if you want a friend get a dog.

Now see... This I where I get aggravated.....

Some people want to "judge" and "condemn" IB for suing KAM and Xenforo, calling it immoral and what not... Well guess what... Its completely legal for IB to sue KAM and Co completely into bankruptcy and bury them both as a company and personally using that approach. Some people have called that immoral... Yet....

Do you really think KAM signing non compete agreements they then ignored is "moral" or right? Their action may or may not be legal (thats for a court to decide) but they signed those agreements as a condition of employment and took the salary they were paid, and then ignored the agreement they had made the minute they left IB. Now some want to claim it wont hold up in court so that makes it all ok.... Really???

The hypocrisy of some people is STUNNING.

 

Let's be real here! There is no one who wishes KAM any personal harm. Everyone sympathises and only hopes for the best for them and their families. So let's stop pretending that everyone is out to get them on a personal level when discussing the XF business. That just makes you look like an ass, really.

None of us know the real story except a few who are not speaking. Personally, I'd rather see some business updates about XF's future...not about personal things.

A business should present themselves in a business fashion, as a whole, on a business level. There really is no need to make this all personal...and no need to give excuses pointing to their personal lives either.

As a business, I personal know how hard it is to continue business as usual when you have a personal family crisis. I've had my share of those in my lifetime as many others have as well. But, as a business you still have to keep things going for your customers and your employees. They rely on you! Those of us who run a brick and mortar business know this all too well. Unfortunately, we CANNOT HIDE behind a computer when our lives are falling apart.

Instead of repeating myself, here's my speculations:

 

Except... its not. Your just as bad as gtb, stating things as fact when you don't know the truth. It's called anti trust. Look it up.

Your idiocy is equally as STUNNING.

KAM signed no such non-compete with IB. They signed it with Jelsoft (a UK COMPANY) and under UK law such the agreement KAM signed is UNENFORCEABLE past 12 months. And yes, it does mean they are allowed to program and develop in that year they are under the non-compete, they just can't release it to the public, which they held to.

 

Sure your 100% correct here? I mean, Internet Brands purchased JELSOFT lock stock and barrel. This could mean they "inherrited employee contracts" when buying the company. Also, you keep saying it's a UK agreement. OK, fair enough. But remember there's a UK court case on hold pending.

Now I ain't claiming anything here, just pointing this out before you go running off at the mouth in another reply. Just that, it may not be quite as cut and dry as you think. I've been with a company that got bought out, I can tell you that my contract of employment at the time was carried across to new owners and nothing changed with it at the time. We was still under the same contract of employment details with new owners, who later give us something like (can't remember exactly now). 30-90 days notice to change it shortly after.

When another company takes over, your contract of employment doesn't go flying out the window (you have none anymore). Otherwise, the new company could sack you all on the spot and bring in cheap agency labour - because you've now got no contract of employment with them. It's becoming quite clear your the one who knows very little.

 

Even if employment contracts were transfered over, they would still be binding by the juristiction in which they were originally signed. You can't unilaterally transfer them into a different juristicion (with different laws).

By IB's own admission Jelsoft is/was their "UK division" and KAM were employeed by that company.

Non-compete agreements are held to some of the strictest standards in the world in the UK in terms of how they can be enforced, and also carry many clauses allowing easy ways to get out. The key points,

a) Excessive time (1 year is the de-facto standard)
B) Employment by another company (see below)
c) Ability to work (a non compete cannot be enforced to stop you from earning an income)

The only "real" thing thats enforceable is within the 12 month period you are not allowed to solicit previous customers from the company you left. Which, due to the time of public availability we know they didn't do.

 

How would they be transferred to a different jurisdiction, if it's being dealt with by UK courts later? The same country the contract comes under, who's talking about it being dealt with in the US here, bar you? I'm talking about this being dealt with in UK courts, the right place to deal with it.

And the US is not the UK, different laws. But, I don't know how this would stand up in a UK courtroom. Just to make that little bit clear.

 

SIgning it with Jelsoft is irrelevant. All contracts of Jelsoft became the property of IB when they bought Jelsoft, just as did all trademarks ,copyrights, license agreements and everything else. And no, it does NOT mean they are allowed to use that 12 months to develop the software.. That is competition. BUT -- as I said and apparantly you were too busy typing "idiocy" to notice, a judge will decide that issue.

FURTHERMORE -- why is it moral for KAM to run off and develop software with the direct intention of competing with vB during that year? They at least violated the spirit of the agreement they made... They had a competitive advantage. They obviously had thorough knowlege of the long term strategy (as it was at the time) and development of vBulletin... While they had that knowlege, they went and developed a competing software. You call that moral?? You can nitpick the law all you want -- but whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If its ok for KAM to so what they did, legal or not, then it should be ok for IB to sue them into the dirt, which is exactly what they are doing.

Oh, and one more thing.. Think it will all be over in January? Think again. If IB loses any part of the suit they will probably appeal, which is a whole new proceeding and ALOT of additional costs KAM probably cant afford.

I think the smartest thing for KAM is to make the best deal they can and settle. IB has enough for a legit claim, even if they untimately dont have enough evidence to win the case, its a viable claim and as such, IB is entitled under US law to pursue all legal remedies available.

 

And remember, IB have done XenForo a favour in not proceeding any further with the UK court case while the US one is still pending. There's still that on looming on the horizon also, not just the US one.