The Burning Question

I'm having a hard time reading threads on xf.
Don't get me wrong. I like xenforo a lot and what it to succeed.
Even for my little hobby site, it's still to immature.

The folks on xf need to take off their rosey colored glasses.
No one knows what wil be. Maybe not even KAM.
I feel it's personal with IB and they got the money to keep the fires burning.
They didn't get to be as large as they are by being the Nice Guy.
That is just not how it's done.

 

Naturally - KAM wouldnt violate the non compete agreement... And even if they did, that contract isnt enforcable -- all this according the the fanboys of course...

 

I am just stating my belief.

In forums there is no requirement to state "in my opinion" in every post, by definition it's my opinion by virtue of being posted.

 

I just cannot post there.

The moment you make any kind of suggestion that development may have stalled, you get the post deleted and a silly infraction/warning thing. And generally the thread is closed.

After this debacle, that's me done with XenForo I'm afraid. I will be selling my (expired) licence soon.

 

If I'm right, that's something still included in the court case against XF.

 

I'd do the same right now myself, seeing as mine is still active until October/November and worth a bit more than an expired license. But from what I gather you have to contact KAM asking them to transfer things over to another, I'm not wasting my time doing that for obvious reasons, wouldn't give them the satisfaction of ignoring me. So I'll keep hold of it the same way I kept hold of my vB license after stopping using that before for a good while, but won't be renewing regardless of what happens there later. I've known that much for a while now, ever since they started going AWOL saying nothing.

I don't carry on dealing with companies who act the way they have at XenForo the last 3 months. Not just them, but any for that matter. Don't think it matters either way were XF is concerned anyway.

 

If it involves contacting them personally then obviously there's no point at the moment. They will be far too busy "secretly developing 1.2" or something.

Fort the small amount of money it would raise I'm not too bothered. I won't be using it now anyway. I have absolutely zero confidence in them, I am beginning to believe the whole thing was just a personal dig at Internet Brands that has gone rather badly wrong for them because Internet Brands fought back the only way they know how.

Not that I'm defending the lawsuit as such but this whole debacle has raised very serious questions about the motivation and aims behind creating XenForo in the first place.

On a much smaller scale I had a similar situation when I started my site. It was a "breakaway" from a major UK ISPs discussion forums and the ISP threatened to sue me if I didn't take it down. I ignored them and they didn't follow it through.

They had no case but obviously they could have bankrupted me in a stroke, regardless. I guess in the end someone at their side advised them they had no case (the crux of it was that I had stolen their members...sound familiar?)

 

You need to have active license to re-sell to someone else So you will have to rewnew it anyways if you decide to sell if it's expired .

 

That's an interesting point. You never know really why they started it in the first place, whether it was born from frustration because IB wouldn't take on their ideas in favour of a rushed vB4. Like you I won't defend the court case, but I do wonder if Xenforo is the result of legal naivety to think they can just pop up with this competing product and IB won't mind. In hindsight maybe they should have waited another year before launch.

IB has also been branded the big bad bully, which is fair enough if you're a Xenforo fan, but there is always the possibility they are right, at least on some counts. For me personally, when the court case started I was 100% on Xenforo's side, but seeing how they have acted this year, how Kier and Mike can stop posting at the drop of a hat and leave customers wondering WTF? makes me question whether they really are the good guys? It also makes me question this whole image they portrayed at the start as the keen, grass roots developers acting for the good of making a competent forum platform - they are not like that now, so is the current behaviour actually what they are really like? Was the first year all just an act?

And as always I would like to point out the facts to the fanbois: Despite their site going offline for well over three or four days for some people (because of the domain non-renewal), Kier has still not posted since May 15th, that's getting on for a month, and Mike has not posted since March 20th (over two months) and we're supposed to think that is normal?

I also agree with the thoughts that "secret development of XF 1.2" is occuring is as stupid as saying Elvis is secretly living on Mars.

 

Thanks, I didn't know that. I have no experience of selling licences of any sort.

In which case I shan't be selling it, I am sad to say that I cannot see my way to giving XenForo any more money when it's clear they have abanadoned the product.

I shall instead file it under "bad emotionally charged decisions made in the heat of the moment".

 

I think there's a lot of truth in this and it will, I hope, all come out in the wash. I don't believe they copied any actual code but there are clear cosmetic similarities between some parts of XF and what Kier posted on his original vBulletin blog about the then-forthcoming vB4 style (although many of those elements were not actually used).

It gave me cause for concern right from the moment I saw XenForo, before any lawsuit. But I did want to support the guys in their business venture and I did and still do like the product they created.

What a horrible, horrible mess it all is. But to be fair it is of Mike and Kier's own doing. They brought this on themselves.

I hate all this They are people I had so much respect for. It is quite shattering really.

As ever I wish Mike & Kier no ill will; it would probably be better for all concerned if they just pulled out now.

 

Fact is, none of us, especially fanboys, know what really went on back then.

IM sure, IB wanted to release vB4 asap. It is very common when a company is bought that something be done quickly to generate revenue to offset the cost of the purchase. Often its a rise in price or pushing a new product out.

In this case, based on some of what I read, here is what I think... James Limm over exaggerated the status of vB4 development to IB, making IB think it was alot closer to completion then it was. This made them push hard to get vB 4 out as soon as possible. Kier, who is known for being a little arrogant I believe, didnt want to push vb4, but wanted a complete rewrite of the core, which would take too long to accomplish. Kier was probably also a bit pissed that Limm made a bag of money for selling vb and he didnt, as well as not liking the new bosses coming in and telling him what to do after Kier basically ran the show for so long. Crappy vB4 was about to come out and IB probably had a shit fit over how buggy it was and Kier may have had an "i told you so" attitude, which doesnt sit well with corporate types.

I do think Xenforo was, at least in part, a big "FU" to IB. I dont think IB was prepared for KAM to leave and was left in a lurch a bit, which led to promoting people who maybe didnt deserve it into positions of leadership that left vB4 with alot of bad pr and missteps.

None of this may be true, but nobody here or on vB or Xenforo knows because we werent there. The fanboys see things with a skewed vision.

Most of the legal "experts" who cast opinions on the case know little or nothing about how the law works. I think IB, at least in part, is going to win this case. They have certainly crippled KAM and Xenforo, and like it or not, that is what IB is suppose to do, defeat competition.

I suspect the reason you see no development in Xenforo is because KAM are off donig other work to support themselves, and either in some kind of settlement negotiations or waiting out the case to see if they win or lose.

 

Appears that MIke has been posting on xenforo marking bugs fixed.

 

Mike's just made a few posts. So I guess he hasn't left and all the people who had "heard from a trustworthy source" that he HAD left, ought to re-evaluate the trustworthiness of those sources.

 

You are absolutely correct on this one.

Yes you are correct.

 

Give me strength. I think I'm going to be sick.

http://xenforo.com/c...e-5#post-370726

 

Why are you feeling sick Mark.B? Is it because Mike who 'had left' is posting on the forums and dealing with bugs? Who do we turn on now? Kier hasn't logged in since Monday, are we back to Kier leaving the sinking ship again?

 

What's your problem?

If people don't like customers thinking they have "left", then they should heed the very loud and obvious calls for them to show their face.

I don;t care that Mike has posted again. The contemptuous attitude with which customers have been treated means it's too late.

You can pretend it doesn't matter, if you like.

 

Outside of your little clique none of us thought they had left. Most of us saw through this fear mongering after Kier supposedly went back to vBulletin and abandoned XenForo. I very nearly bought into that theory only because of the court case but something didnt seem right, then Kier posted and a new target was picked.

I've said it before, that I dont agree with the way that they seem to go silent for long periods but at the same time I can understand why they dont feel the need to keep running onto the forums and shouting 'Get out of the lifeboats. We are still here, dont panic Mark.B, AWS, GTB and Joey'

If they started doing that then they would have to be making announcements once every couple of days to say 'been busy coding or with personal things please dont panic' because certain people keep repeatedly panicking.

Kier and Ashley have posted that there's nothing to panic about but that wasn't good enough for the small minority of panic merchants so I can fully understand why they no longer bother to humour the disruptive influence.