Setting WYSIWYG Editors on... Fire!

At 1:15 of the "Ghost" blogging platform video, they should their interesting approach to the editor with some "markdown" and live preview:
http://tryghost.org/features.html

 

I like having the option. The WYSIWYG editor is faster (if you know the simple shortcut keys), but sometimes you need to drop to the level of the source code to get things exactly like you want.

 

Yeah man, inline-markdown editing is awesome. I didn't realize how awesome until I played around with Ghost's editor demo.

 

If a Wysiwyg editor gets everything done you need to get done to format text and even images within a text area (in a blog, forum post, article in a CMS, etc), why would you need to get deeper into the code or markdown? What examples are there, where you would need this kind of functionality?

Scott

 

I prefer seeing the code. Even the best WYSIWYG do not work perfectly, never do. Sometimes links don't end where you want, Bold gets applied wrong- then you try to fix it and it results in a mess of open/closed tags... Plus in source mode it doesn't paste formatting which 99% of the time I never want to do. I find it quicker to add an image by typing out the bbcode and pasting the URL than needing the mouse to click on a button in the editor.

 

Because with a WYSIWYG editor you have to stop typing and click buttons to accomplish what you want. With Markdown, you can just keep typing and format on the fly.

For example, for putting text in H1 tags, you just put a # sign before it and boom H1, like this: #Big Title!
And I can accomplish that without having to stop typing, select the text, and then click a button or keyboard shortcut. It's got a small learning curve but it's faster.

 

Ok, I understand. But normally with WYSIWYG you shouldn't type a few words, then stop to format it, then continue to type. You type everything you want first, then format it last. I bet you with a WYSIWYG editor and a lot of different formatting, you can better keep your thoughts together writing that way and in the end, it is faster. But, I can understand for a small bit of formatting here or there, just typing it could be faster. Thanks for the answer.

Scott

 

With respect, Scott- It's the thinking that you think you know how people use something that will run you into issues like this. Never assume you know how a feature is used or will be used. Don't bet me what you think is better for me, you won't often be right.

 

I agree, sort of. You have to know what a standard is and you have to make a decision for that standard at one point and go with it. It could either be a new standard you want to set or one that is already given. And it doesn't matter which one, you just can't sit and wait to make that decision just because you can't assume what others think. And, thus, once you make that decision, you have to assume most people will also accept it. You have to trust your own knowledge of your users/ customers. And yes, that knowledge may not always be enough. That is when humbleness comes into play.

If you find a larger number of people aren't satisfied with your feature/ standard, you have to find out why. If it is, for the sake of a good example, improper usage of a wysiwyg editor, like stopping to format every time you want to format, then you can correct that improper behavior by explaining the proper behavior (if it is a given standard). But first you have to ask, "what is wrong with it?" and that is the humbleness side of the equation. If you find it is improper behavior, you can try to explain the right behavior or at least the behavior you intended users to have. People will either change, or they won't. Through the discussion though, you might even learn better ways to solve other problems. Like not having to use the "B" button to simply make a word bold, but rather use a prefix like "#" to do it. And for certain, if the majority of people say your set standard is crap, you need to rethink your own perspective, if you do want to make the bigger crowd happy. You must live with the fact your assumption was wrong and then do something about it.

And, to drive my point home about the editor, it IS improper behavior to stop your flow of thought and typing to format your text. It is a golden rule of writing. Write first, edit second and any text formatting is a part of editing.

So, once you've made your decision/ assumption (a better description for this would be "best educated guess") for a certain standard or feature and only a select few users/ customers don't follow/ don't like the standard you've taken, that is then their problem. The majority do.

The real trick is to actually see and understand whether the new standard you've created or the standard you followed is accepted as a standard by the majority of your users/ customers or not. Or, an even bigger decision is to make a push to sell that new standard as the next best thing to sliced bread. This is actually a decision which normally is made earlier, when you know your standard is very new and is going to be questioned. That is when good marketing should kick in. But to know that, you must also know your users/ customers very well first and know they may balk at your ideas/ standard setting capabilities.

Sorry, completely off topic.

I am all for a WYSIWYG editor. I am also for inline editing of text. I personally would want to be able to just click on a text and edit the text exactly where I clicked on it. For instance, the overlay editing in XF is a step backwards in IMHO. I tend to write longer text (which I know is not a standard), and when I find a mistake after I post something, finding the point where I want to edit the text in the overlay is a real PITA. For the standard short text writer, it is fine. Inline editing, however, wouldn't hurt the short text writers and would help the long text writers like me. So, to come back to my point, that standard of inline text editing could make more users happier. Just sayin.....

Scott

 

Again you are arguing this on the assumption your way is the correct way and any deviation from that is incorrect.

However a smart man often told me "The customer is always right."

Those two ways of thinking seem incompatible if you are going to designate something to be a "wrong way."

On a personal note, while I understand the logic behind your "write first, format later" approach there are some of us who think in formatted text, and the fact text may not be formatted properly after I type if does more harm to my concentration than any good that would come from finishing my post and going back to format later.

I will accept my way is "different" or perhaps "unusual" (though I know of no studies that prove this) but to say it is wrong, or without putting words in your mouth, simply "not right" I might take offense.

 

Interesting you read my post like that. It is not what I am saying. I am saying, there is a standard. Write first, edit second. It IS what most people do. It is NOT what everyone does.

Just because you, as a user, do not follow what is standard, doesn't make you wrong or your way wrong. It just makes you someone who doesn't follow the status quo.

Ok, and that is you. But you can't tell me you can properly reread and contemplate what you've written, when it is completely full of bbcode.

Where did I ever say something was wrong? I was pointing out the standard, which is, "write first, edit later". You can read it in any teachings about how to write properly.

If your point is, not to tell people what they are doing is wrong, well, sometimes you have to, if they feel their way is against a standard you are trying to follow. If they take offense to that, it certainly wouldn't be my personal intention. I also wouldn't feel bad about them feeling offended either, if it is only a couple of them and not the majority.

It goes along the lines of Abraham Lincoln's great words....

Scott

 

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Yes, but that's still extra time. Which is faster: Typing a few extra characters to format something, or going through a lot of text, finding what you want to format, highlighting it with your cursor, and then clicking a button? I'm going with typing.

You're welcome to your own opinion though.

 

And I'll keep my opinion thank you.

Scott

 

As re-inventing the wheel is not always a rationally right approach, so if there is any chance where I have to use a WYSIWYG editor, I will not mind using the TinyMCE or the CKEditor as a plugin on my website if there is a need.

Now as a user, though I dont use much of the functionality of these editors, still I do use the smileys and emoticons. So just for the sake of using them, I would say that I need them on the forums and other places that allow me to use the editors.