My Feelings on xenForo

I liked the comment in howard's thread:

They are missing a point. Howard and others have no stake in anything but feel free to go to vB (and Xenforo as well) and run off at the mouth constantly about vB. Some of those people are so blind to their own hipocracy its pathetically funny. IPB should start charging for their Xen to IPB importer, and beefing up their support forum staff because many if not most of these people will likely be heading there soon.

 

I think we need to keep an open mind. There are other things that would explain his behaviour and going MIA. These include illness (mental or physical) which he'd hardly want to make public. How do we know his wife has not walked out on him (he did make a point recently of mentioning he was looking after a number of children)? Or that he has other family issues? If this all sounds like wild speculation it is no more so than what has been said before.

It all comes down to the fact that only Kier and a few people know what's going on, but that of course does not change the fact that failing to communicate with customers is just plain wrong. It also does not justify why, after all that has been said on Xenforo and other forums, he remains quite elusive and tight-lipped (especially about Mike).

As for the lawsuit thread on vB. They were right to close it. It was in no way a pro-vB thread it was mostly an excuse for ex-vB users to stir things. It also required an increasing amount of moderation. In any case, you would not expect, for legal reasons, to want an active discussion on it. Personally I do not feel comfortable with Paul M - who is tagged as staff - posting on Xenforo about it either. It's a possible conflict of interests and as staff he cannot be taken as impartial.

 

God help IPB if that happens, Matt Metcham with have no hair left to comb come June/July through stress. :lol2:

 

Think you've brought up a good valid point actually, and why I do try to be light hearted about it all. It's something I did think about before when reading him say that, and what you've wrote above. And Yes, something we should keep in mind could always be the case, hope it's not because I've been through all that myself, not nice. Truth is, they could release XF 1.2 this week and even we are blown away by it. Sure can happen!

And I still say I prefer using XenForo before any other forum software. So no matter what I say, I ain't no XenForo hater otherwise I'd be dishing down the forum software itself. I run vB3, vB4.2 (now) and XenForo on localhost testing. Most of the time I'm using the XenForo install folder, not the other two.

 

I know who your talking about there. He/She runs a large forum and was moaning mainly about SEO in IPB being bad.

 

The tide is turning. There's a great positive vibe now about vB 4.2 and at the same time there is very little positivity on XenForo (which makes me sad).

 

And here we go again with the fanbois jumping in and attacking him with the usual sarcastic posts and childish pictures and videos, and yet nothing is done.

The thread is HERE by the way.

Howard - a greatly knowledgeable and respected poster - follows myself in stopping posting there because of censorship. Unusually for me, I didn't bother with a big leaving thread, however I have just stopped posting.

I don't actually agree with a lot of what Howard posts, however I greatly respect his views and the fact he's been censored off the board proves again what is now going on.

 

Well I hope we all get proved wrong and XenForo 1.2 comes soon and looks stunning for using, because that's still my preference to use first.

 

It's not happening, not at the moment anyway.

 

No idea what he said that got removed, well two of his posts got removed it seems. And looks like it was something to do with asking a question about development from what I've gathered, but not sure?

Just read the replies I've missed later before Slavic eventually locked it. What you say.. except sigh!

 

Well you know what they can be like, esspecially Kier. He may be laughing his socks off right now knowing it's coming soon and we'll end-up with egg on face? :nailbite:

 

I think you are totally and completely deluded if you are in any way suggesting the tide is turning towards vBulletin. The only customers left on vB are those who know no different and people like yourself Mark who for some reason have abandoned Xenforo or IPB as alternatives, have at the same time conveniently forgotten everything you have written in the vB customer forums and on Xenforo as to why vB as a company is so bad, and decided you'll just play it safe and stick with the devil you know. Fair play to you, it is your choice to make, but it flies in the face of every anti-vB comment you have made.

If the tide is turning, it may well be away from Xenforo, but it can only end up going towards IPB or open source. People would have to be stupendously thick to migrate backwards from Xenforo to vB4, the only viable exit strategy is to IPB.

I'll be spending some time next month skinning IPB and trying, in a test environment, to try and make it feel as nice as XenForo and to get a working and repeatable import from XF. Then, I'll maintain that as a fall back in case of further problems with XenForo.

Again I'll repeat that IPB should be working on a way to encourage XF users over, a well publicised and fully working importer - there must be enough unhappy and uncertain XF customers now to warrant giving it some time and effort.

 

I don't think so. And even if that does happen, well "laughing your socks off" because you've managed to rub many of your customers up the wrong way, isn't a particularly proud way to do business.

I'm afraid I am increasingly of the opinion that XF was borne out of frustration at what had been done at vB and was an attempt to 2stick one up them". Sadly it appears that's not worked as a long term strategy.

And the trouble is, vB's now getting its act together.

 

Don't think that was the case myself, think when they left vBulletin having been no doubt earning great money for a long time. I think KAM decided to do their own thing to earn the big bucks, rather than go working as a developer for another firm. That's the feeling I get was the main driving force behind starting XenForo as a business, not so much to stick 2 fingers up at IB really. That only came later when they unexpectedly started the court case against XenForo.

Prior to that the devs left of their own accord, they wasn't kicked out and sacked.

 

I disagree. IPB is simply not an option for many. There *are* people migrating back to vB, there have been several public ones recently. I have to say I'd prefer it if XF was being developed and was becoming feature rich but the fact is, it isn't, and like IPB it's something of an acquired taste.

The issue for many (like myself) is that we knew XF was lacking but based our long term conversion plans on the fact that it would improve. This has not happened. I won't even begin to list the features that are missing, that we thought would come, but that make it impossible to convert. Still, the goodwill was there and....oh, that's gone now too.

Even sites like Spinball's AVForums, who originally said they'd convert within six months, have STILL not converted almost two years later. And I suspect that they never will now because that's his income and you don't mess with that. M

My site is just a hobby board. Although I try to run it along professional lines, it ultimately doesn't really matter. It's the sites that rely on the forum for an income that I worry for. They should stick with vB because it *is* improving and I love the passion that seeps out of the vB4 dev team now. I hope to God none of them ever leave, because the guys doing it right now are the bees knees and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

No I haven't forgotten the things I said about vB4. I don't regret a word, the product and the company were in a bit of a mess. But now there is passion, there is direction, there is innovation. Is it perfect? Of course not1 But it is moving in a good direction. if it stops doing so, I shall be the first to shout about it. But I will never complain for the sake of it, 4.1.12 was a very solid product and 4.2.0 is really good. It's not just me saying so, the feedback on the forums proves it.

 

You may be right but I think an element of one-upmanship crept in...hence the revealing of XF on *exactly* the 12 month mark after they left. And I don't think they expected that lawsuit. You just can't play big companies like that, they will eat you.

I cannot possibly know ALL the facts. Time will tell. I have otherwise ceased commenting on the suit. In any case, I doubt I could be considered 100% impartial now I suppose.

 

I don't disagree that maybe a little "one-upmanship crept in" at the same time also, but far from being the main reason XenForo came about. Which was to earn a good wage, simple as really! And yes they made a mistake, quite a foolish one thinking they had their base covered and IB probably wouldn't do a thing later when XenForo got released. Which we all known now wasn't the case at all since.

They took a gamble which didn't come off how they expected. And really for me, the biggest mistake they made was releasing XenForo 12 months after leaving vBulletin. They left themselves wide open doing that because it proves they was developing it while still under that 12 month leaving contact agreed, which we now know they was because it's been mentioned in the court docs and I'm pretty sure it said they got extra cash agreeing to it. They should have waited 2 years, at least then they could claim only to have worked developing it in the second year after leaving IB covering themselves, even if working 2 years on it really.

But how can you release it 12 months later, and more or less to the day. Then try and claim you wasn't working on it while under that 12 month agreement with IB. What they going say? Well we created it in one night, then released it the very next day? IB have got them caught on that one hook, line and sinker. They should have known better than try and pull that stunt 12 months later and expect nothing would happen! Not when your talking about a company with millions behind them to take you into court. Bad move!

People say they are protected as small start up company. But if they put that agreed leaving contract down in writing with IB, they don't have a leg to stand on because it's there in black and white. That they did, what they agreed not to do on paper as evidence against them. A binding business contact of law.

I don't see how they can get around that one, if they put it in writing with IB.

 

ah, no. The vast majority of successful forums never left vB, and could care less about the lawsuit or any of this nonsense. I spend ALOT of time on others' forums every day, and I can tell you, very very few left vB from what Ive seen. The notion that all these forum owners abandoned vB is just not true from what I've seen. Some have, yes, but overall its a very small precentage from what ive seen.

 

This is true. A significant number of very vocal customers DID leave, but the overwhelming majority are still there, and adoption of vB4 has become widespread. More often than not now, when you find a popular forum, it's on vBulletin and it's on a late version 4 (generally 4.1.10 or above).

The simple fact is that they got themselves sorted and the current dev team really do know what they are doing.

And I hope XF survives and I hope it does well. But the earlier notion many had (including myself) that vB was finished, has actually been turned around very successfully. That is itself speaks volumes about the current team because let's be honest the product wasn't in a good place at 4.0.0. But its unrecognisable from that now.