Did Vbulletin lose more than a lawsuit?

I was upgrading vB3 to vB4.1.x it should not break on upgrade. No ifs or buts.

My server was an awesome one, thanks.

Nope.

This was never addressed until vBulletin developers got wind of it, which was quite a while, actually.

Yes, I know popularity leads to attempts to hack software, but xenForo takes preventive measures to make sure that software itself isn't hackable through script injections (e.g. vB3 series). xenForo takes it further by not showing version number on public pages.

I know that, but to make people's lives better; it should not be there. A potential hacker would know which injection to use for that site if the version number is there.

 

None of my upgrades broke anything. You do have to follow instructions, e.g., disabling vB3 add-ons and plug-ins, many of which were incompatible.

 

I didn't have to do any of that with vB3 or xenForo.

 

The problem and issue of continued monetization is a big deal, especially if it is keeping you personally afloat and/or the business in operation. I am not sure how well of a monetization platform XenForo offers, even though it is a relatively costly product to license and host. There can be no more truth in that statement. If XenForo developers make it simple for conversion from either platform, and add the necessary functionality for full conversion, as well as monetization, I would be upgrading right now. The fear from large site owners is that this will paralyze future operations and it is a legitimate concern.

 

There a vB3 importer right now, and the vB4 importer is in "beta" and can be downloaded today. There is also a IPB importer, too. Monetization is possible through many different plugins - I don't know what kind of plugin you use to monetize your site(s) but if vBulletin/IPB offers monetization opportunities, then xenForo can, too. All you have to do is look hard. Go buy it today! https://xenforo.com/purchase/

 

Yes, importers aren't really the issue, although the accuracy of those importers may be, especially to big board owners.

The key issue for most vBulletin customers like me will be the availability of customizations and add-ons we're currently using.

 

??? What is KAM?

 

Oh jesus. *Rubs head* Either the importer works, or it doesn't.

The importer that's in xF are developed by world-class developers. I don't need any validation than that.

Really? REALLY?

People still defend vBulletin even though all of these flaws are present? Okay, not my problem! Waste your money for all I care.

 

KAM is the triumvirate in charge of XenForo.

Kier, Ashley, & Mike....with their powers combined --- KAM!

Not knowing this has shown that you have a life outside of the Internet, which is not only disfavored but also actively discouraged. Shame on you.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.... and I was in the same boat. I used to think that vBulletin was the best software out on the market until IB came in and bought it out. I stayed with IB 6 months after the vB4 sale regardless of the flaws that I saw - hoping, having faith that vBSI would turn this around. Nope. My site was killed in an upgrade and I decided it was time to move.

I have learnt this mistake a little "late." When I moved from vB4 to xenForo, the site that was killed in the upgrade? It skyrocketed to levels un-imaginable. Not even vB4 could get me that 900+ visitors on a peak day. Now, HOPEFULLY this year's CODGhosts/Next year's MW4/BO3 can eclipse that number.

I have a life outside of the internet, but I managed to know who/what KAM is.

 

xenforo

 

When I moved to vB3 the importer was not perfect and there was a need for a certain amount of editing and tidying. Every now and then, I still run across an old thread which remains unedited from that import.

Who were with vB when I used that importer - see above.

Sheesh. Take a breath. My sole point there was that many current owners (like me) who have a functioning vB4 board are not going to impulsively jump to another format that may well, however temporarily, lose some of their current functionality. I would want to be assured that this would be minimized before I jumped.

 

When you moved to vB3. That's a vBulletin problem. xenForo's vB3 importer is flawless. I tried the vB3 importer, I tried the vB4 importer (which at the time was a plugin) and they were flawless. No problem whatsoever.

Would you rather have a broken software, or a software that works without having to worry about security concerns?

I would move, at the expense of the "functionality" you're talking about. Which I did with vB3/vB4, which was a heavily modded forum, with plenty of popular, and some not-so-popular plugins.

 

Please don't misinterpret my previous message as being an affront to XenForo or blind support of vBulletin. I think XenForo is well on its way to becoming a superior product all around, and that is why it is difficult to figure out how to implement a large migration. While it may seem easy to simply run the importer, we also have to deal with theming, styling, and customizations that are needed to brand the sites. Also, I have to worry about the ability of the sites to generate revenue during the transition. These are major issues for a site that has hundreds of thousands of pages being crawled. For a lot of forum owners this becomes a one man job, because the support staff may be extremely dedicated, but they do not have the desire to perform all of these tasks of enormity and no one can, rightfully, hold their feet to the fire. Time will tell what happens to vBulletin, but its not like v4 is completely not functional. Credit must be given where it is due and they have a huge support community that backs up their users for everything ranging from anti-spam to customization. XenForo is drawing that kind of attention and the software, from a utilitarian perspective, is certainly more modern and attractive to use. When you are dealing with a huge database with gigabytes of data, weighing the pro's and con's can leave you in a sort of dead zone where you are waiting to see what happens next and pushing other initiatives in the interim. So I know I am not the only one thinking this way with vB5 and I think you're just seeing people on the sidelines not sure when they will jump ship.

I brought up the issue of monetization because with large sites this becomes paramount. Sure, its probably a matter of editing a few templates, but we have ad space we haven't touched since 2009 because we know "this spot works". It is that type of testing that can be costly and devastating if you are just one person dealing with all of this. It is a pain in the neck. Community issues and uprooting members and returning visitors is also a real concern, although I believe most people would like the modern design found in XenForo.

 

I don't know why you are insisting on making this a debate about what you prefer. I have nothing against Xenforo, although at this point if I were to drop vBulletin today I would go with IPB for several reasons.

My vB4 forums are not broken at all, first of all. But beyond that, as I said, I have several customizations and add-ons that I would prefer to keep. All I'm saying is that when I do move it won't be until I am personally assured that I can get that same functionality in another project.

 

Yep... we spent 15 months working on our migration. We had a crazy amount of custom stuff built around the vBulletin framework... not just "customizations", but entire applications. For example our keyword tracker tool (and a ton of other applications).

We started rewriting everything for XF in October, 2011, and we didn't go live until January, 2013. The default XF importer also wasn't acceptable since we would have had to take down the site for days... so we built our own importer that did it in less than an hour.

It's no joke to switch platforms... I most certainly didn't do it because I was bored, out of spite or anything like that. It was just very apparent to me that vBulletin was going down a road that didn't work with what I needed it to do. vB4 was fine at the time, but I was looking 5-10 years out. Better to get the pain of the migration over with sooner than later.

This all happened LONG before I heard about or saw anything to do with vB5... Which made me REALLY glad I was working on the migration when I first saw it.

Long story short... you can't underestimate the amount of effort that it takes to migrate a large site between ANY two platforms. Larger sites tend to have more custom stuff.

 

Stop putting words into my mouth and I would be happy to debate with you without any of this insults back and forth. It's not about what I prefer. It's about doing the right thing. You spent, what? $250? Guess what. I spent over $600 in vB4 licenses. Six. hundred. dollars. I spent another $350 or more just for vBSEO alone. And half of that money was returned to me via second-hand sales, and a large check for $500+. This isn't a game to me.

The whole reason of me getting into this business of forums was to start small when starting a company. But the timing was so incredibly bad. I did not envision that IB would make all of these stupid mistakes, stupid business moves, and stupid attitude towards customers. I'm surprised there wasn't a class action lawsuit with the marketshare that vBulletin had. I'm surprised.

Here's why: If I was the C.E.O of IB at the time of acquiring the actual vBulletin brand, the first thing I would do is try being "buddy-buddy" with Kier in the first place, I would not change a single thing about vBulletin yet. I would not raise prices, I would not change licensing structures, I would not change anything. I would invest all of those millions of dollars in capital on improving the current version (vB3 at the time), and focus Kier's attention on vB4 with his developers. But instead, Brisco basically did the opposite and look how it turned out.

I would not file a lawsuit against a small company like that (xenForo). That was a complete waste of company resources. All of that cash would have gone to making sure vB4 was a runaway success. And making sure Kier and the rest of his team stayed together with a positive environment.

I mean, [****][****][****][****]'s sakes, man... This is a [****][****][****][****]ing IPO company. A [****][****][****][****]ing multimillion dollar corporation!

That's what piss me off about this. A [****][****][****][****]ING MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR COMPANY. That means, whatever you spent today is worthless. You won't get back the money you invested, unless you are a big board owner. But if you are a big board owner, and want more money, you go to a new platform; xenForo puts your site into better light, and then some more. A lot of site owners are experiencing this. I'm one of them. My $1,101 vB3 acquisition was only 900 threads/1500 posts when I bought it. It's now 3k threads, and 8k posts. It could have been better, but I am faithful that the site will soar.

One day, vB4 will break on you. When it does... Hopefully you don't cry at that time. I almost [****][****][****][****]ing cried with vB4. I had just spent $1,000 and all I found was numerous problems? My heart was shattered. Literally dropped. Boom. I'll say it again: This isn't a game to me.

Some people have said that skinning xenForo is easy, but I'm a newbie at skinning, so I went out and bought a pre-made skin. Then after that, I spent some time working on the skin to look exactly like a site I liked. End result, I felt accomplished!

All of your concerns will be addressed with xenForo. After editing my templates for ad space, I haven't "touched" it since I put it live 2 years ago. Every time I upgraded, I always wanted to use the same spot - copy the code, and paste it back into the same place in the upgraded skin. Easy as pie.

 

Carlos:

1. See post by Digitalpoint just above yours at http://admin-talk.com/threads/did-vbulletin-lose-more-than-a-lawsuit.42983/page-2#post-493996 - THAT is what I've been trying to say.

2. Choice of any software is partly based on specific individual needs and specific preferences. I'm not dissing Xenforo. It simply would not meet my needs at this time. I'm happy that you and others like it.

 

Yeah, and he moved. He moved despite how long it would take to get from A to B. If you really want to make your community better, you follow his footsteps or follow mine. Like someone else said, better sooner, or be left behind. That's where you'll be.

Your choice. You'll be kicking yourself when you make the switch - "Why didn't I move sooner?" is the first thing you're going to ask yourself. I did it when I transferred to xenForo and saw the results 2 months later. A year later, I'm thinking "Wow. That was the best decision I ever made."