Cases with the BBB

Ah I see what you mean now. Yes, that would make sense to me. But I doubt that will happen.

 

All i know is i tried to ask via tickets and licensed customer feedback forum, if what was going to happen was true. All vbulletin staff did was deny it and they KNEW the direction the company was headed.

I personally (and i can show you) purchased 2 different licenses, forum software and blog software. These 2 pieces of software had separate license numbers and expiration dates. I renewed my licenses every year faithfully, only to be treated like a 2nd class customer. They merged my licenses into one, without telling me why, and when i asked about that, i was ignored and then taunted by friends of steve machol and wayne luke. For being an unhappy customer who wanted their money back if they were taking away my software options, was infracted, called names by moderators, and then banned forever.
Do i have a case with the better business bureau, hell i don't know. Steve Machol has done a great job of making it look like everyone he is banning is just a trouble maker and that they have not been grieved. Well, i believe i was grieved, i am only asking for my renewal fee back, not my license money. I want to continue using vbulletin software and am happy to stay at 3.8.2. I am however unhappy that my blog software will no longer be available to me and that i won't be able to see it's functions improve within my forum software.

 

If you're gonna start with numbers, please use proper numbers.
There has not been a 50% increase.
My favorite example... I'll be using a vBulletin forum. No addons or anything.
It was predicted (by IB staff), that vB4 will EOL 2.5 years after its release.
So, with the old licensing system, if you renewed on time, that would be:
$40 x 2.5 = $100
For vBulletin forum updates and support.
With the new system, if you want to have updates and support (as an existing customer) you have to pay:
$175 (for the switch to vB4 Classic) + $200 ($80 x 2.5 for support) = $375
That's a bit more than 50%

If you're talking about the Suite:
New Price: $130
Old Price: $100 + $50 (vBlog) = $150
If you already had the blog, that's a price increase of under $15 per year ($30 for 2.5 years).

 

Okay so again you haven't stayed up to date in 3 years. So why are you so concerned with it now? There was plenty of warning and notices about staying up to date with any licenses.

 

To be fair, I don´t think he's trying to get something for free. He's trying to... Well, Lord knows what he's trying. By now everyone should understand, that the old licensing system is not coming back.
But either way, the fact that he didn't renew for 3 years, takes away all the credibility of any argument.

 

Oh, I see you just edited your post.. Thanks, I didn't want this to turn into what you were making it to be.

I did not update because I didn't need to. Why now and not 1 year ago? Because I want to make sure I get the last version of the software I paid for before it's not available anymore. As for the warnings, I never received any. I expected anything important to be sent to me by e-mail, since I am a valued customer according to the recent one I received relating to the 4.x update pricing..

 

Ya know, since my banning, i never received any emails from vbulletin.com about the pricing? Weird.

 

You didn't pay for any version of vBulletin. You paid for a year's updates and support and after that for eternal right to use. You got that. And you were fine with it. Now suddenly you want updates for a license you didn't need updates for X years for.

 

I don't see why. I purchased an owned license x amount of time ago, expecting to be allowed to renew at anytime if I chose to (That was the whole point of this licensing mode, wasn't it?). This option was removed without prior warnings. All I am trying to get is access to the last version of the software I should've been allowed to receive under the original terms of the agreement.

 

Incorrect. I paid for software which included 1 year of maintenance for free and the option to renew that maintenance at my will, so that I could download the latest version at that point. Of course it's "suddenly", since my original right to renew was "suddenly" removed!

 

So you mean the version that was available on the last Day your License was up to date? If so, I so no reason why.
If you neglected to download at the time, it's bad luck. And now you only start making the demand after the license change.

 

Well I couldn't make this demand before the license change because well, I wasn't aware there was going to be a license change...

 

I am not sure on this one yet, from my understanding, as long as you don't opt in for the new version (4.0) that is being developed under the new owner, the old license would still be active. I am not a lawyer by any means.

More then likely i a wrong though, because without notice, they merged my blog license into my forum license ( I lost 6 months worth of upgrades for the blogs by this move) and will no longer be allowed to receive blog updates. I ended up having to remove the blog software from my website because it isn't that great at the time of the last upgrade. I will sell you that though for cheap....My blog still show's the old license number so i think i can still sell it.

 

I see both points as being valid. However, I don't think customers have the right to renew as opposed to an option.

Someone else stated it and I think it needs to be stressed more.

Consider this:

1. Prior maintenance schedule and fees has expired due to launch of vb4. This is for legacy v.3.x product.

2. vB4 release demarks 1 time, outright purchase/upgrade at point releases. (summarized from vB announcement).


New customers have no option to buy pre-vB4, i.e., v3.x.

Existing customers (of any pre-vB4) are ONLY able to keep current with security patches (b/c that is the extent of v3.x series) IF they were ACTIVE (not expired).

The products are separate. For those that choose to await vb4.x, etc. is it not unreasonable to still sell v.3.x at X price? (I know the answer though)

/end ramble

 

The fact that there is a license change doesn't really make a difference though, does it? I mean, I always stay up to date. And I will keep doing so even after the license change.
What is going to change is that out of the 4 forums that I ran with vB, only one will remain there. The rest is going to IPB and MyBB.
Still, I'm just not buying the "now that the licensing is changing, I need the last version that I should have had." Because it's your responsibility and decision, if you're gonna download the last available version or not. If you chose not to, then you have no right to get the update you could have downloaded, had you chosen to.

It doesn't say anywhere in the license that you are guaranteed the right to renew. It's an option. And they are no longer offering it.
So yeah, while I agree that this switch around without warning customers is a total crock of sh!t. Legally there is nothing you can do I believe.

They must have discontinued the blog then - which is (legally) allowed.
Again: I think it stinks that they are doing it this way, but they legally can AFAIK.

 

We are looking at various practices, including inducing customers to buy and existing customers to rely on what was present practices and then discontinue the practices without adequate prior notice. We are looking at both contract and consumer law, which there is a reasonable chance was ignored.

 

I agree with the earlier post, I too believe one of the reasons why vBulletin was and is pressuring people to upgrade quickly to 4 is to get them off the old license agreements. I think it's a legal manouvre of sorts.

But you know there are other solutions and options here.

What would happen if someone set up a site which had coders that helped to release code and updates for the 3 series? Theoretically, people could run this software for ever and never need vBulletin. It could be developed even with updates etc. The only thing that couldn't happen is that it couldn't be sold to new customers.

Just a thought!

 

Holy off topic Batman...

This thread went from something potentially useful to yet another he said , she said slug-fest on the actions of vB Solutions. We've seen these same arguments in how many threads now?

This we can not sully one of them?

Shame shame, ya'll are forum admins. You DO know better.

 

I think this may be the only post you've made that I agree with here , but to each their own opinion.

My own case:
They've replied with the same old same old garbage, accusing the customer of wrongdoing, blah, blah, blah. No resolution at all.

 

I know that we are all going to be blamed, but this is really going to have an effect on vbulletins bottom line if more people would join in on the BBB complaint avenue.