Are the vBulletin devs "Brainwashed"?

You could not be more wrong about not being able to disagree with the company. All the time support staff voices their concerns and disagreements, but this is done in more private ways, not the public forum. There is no benefit to anyone if I speak my mind in the Licensed Customer Feedback forum when I can email, chat, or otherwise interact with the higher-ups.

Don't think we're all yes men in meetings saying "thanks sir, may I have another." We're brutally honest with management of what we think and the realities of the forum world. Sometimes people cry... maybe... hard to tell without video but I imagine they do.

 

Why work for the company? Because vBulletin is still the forum software of choice for me and frankly I like knowing things the regular people do not know. Nothing mind-blowing mind you, not the secret of the holy grail- but just like being on the inside of something that is fairly important to my life (My forums.) Also I often find myself giving support to people on the forums, why not make it official? Plus most importantly, my kick-ass staff avatar.

Also- the premise that just because the software isn't perfect, or even great (in the case of VB5 right now) doesn't mean they don't listen- You pick your battles- sometimes you win, sometimes you lose- but our input does often get acted on- there is A LOT of "input."

If you worked for Ford and didn't like the way they designed a new car, would you really quit over it? That is absurd thinking. You will have far better chance to make changes being on the inside than the outside, given the choice.

 

IMO, so many forum community members are so reactive and so harsh towards vB guys for every move they make, I'm not at all surprised they become defensive.

They may be coders, forum pros, and community managers, but it doesn't mean they are immune to insults and attacks. I think vBulletin might want to create free daily meditation class in the office to help them deal with the flack they get! It's immense.

Note: I'm not talking about criticism. Criticism is often warranted, but they are also dealing with several extremists and trolls out there. We can't rip them apart and expect them to be fully cooperative to all of our needs. I've personally been disappointed with the level of communication (or lack of a certain level of respect) that pervades the forum community. We did our best at vBSEO to really hold customers AND staff to a higher standard - and I'll do the same with Launch.forum when our community gets active.

Imagine doing your job, and getting attacked every day. You can't openly criticize your employer (nor should you), and you have to support your family. Resigning your position purely due to personal virtue sounds great in theory, but it's not feasible for everyone to do. I'd rather them stay quiet and protect their families. If things don't go the way they should, ultimately, it's management that is at fault. If it were staff's fault, they'd either correct the issues, or be replaced.

I would imagine the people treating them with respect are getting a lot more behind the scenes cooperation and transparency.

 

And did you leaving cause management to change their ways and develop a better product?

 

I am working as hard as I can in the best way I can to make vBulletin a better forum, so yes, I have no problem looking at myself in the mirror. Thanks for asking.

I would only resign if I considered myself part of the problem or lacked the courage to try and change things. Whether I (and others) succeed or not time will tell but I will not run away because things didn't go my way.

 

I lean more towards @AWS 's point of view but can see @BirdOPrey5 's side too. Personally, I couldn't work for vB under IB.

 

LOL, and with you

if you're so confident with vb5c why don't you set it up for your own site?
why don't you use vb5c for your own site?
http://www.qapla.com/mods/forum.php

 

I have said plainly I would not use VB5 in its current state. It gets better each release but to me VB4/Vb3 still surpass it both in features and performance. One day I may upgrade to VB5 but likely not anytime soon.

Now even if VB5 ended up "equal" to VB 4.2.x the more practical issue is when providing support I need access to a workin 4.x forum. Right now I have my Off Topic forum on VB 3.8, Qapla forum on VB 4.2.1, and of course the vBulletin Community forums on 5.x. This gives me instant access to a real world foruma of all supported versions should I need to look anything up. Converting Qapla forum to VB5 would leave me with a big hole in the forums I have access to. I would need to see VB5 be significantly ahead of VB4 to make upgrading worthwhile.

My VB 3.8 forum has over 1000 plugins installed, all of which would need to be re-coded almost from scratch to upgrade to VB5, so that is even less likely.

 

Definitely I don't want to say brain-washed but it's looking like they are collecting checks, instead of being more concern about it. When you are not interested in any thing then you can't get the success in that particular thing.

 

Probably not. But I hope I never find myself working for a company that treats it customers with the lack of respect that VB does. Also, I'd personally find it very difficult to recommend the company's "new car", if I wasn't prepared to drive it myself.