Advice on what to do next

I didn't accomplish a thing, apart from sorting out my own silly head a bit and stopping acting like a spoiled child. LOL.

I got a bit carried away....simple as that. They got sick of me because I wound them up.

I even said somewhere recently, if I wasn't me I'd put me on my ignore list. And that was before I was banned.

 

Mark I haven't read this whole thread, just the first and last ... but I did see your posts on vb.

I thought you were over-doing it, alot. Especially since you were also saying you were no longer continuing as a customer. Once you publish that, imo you don't have a dog in the fight, even if you feel hard done by. Time to be the one to gracefully exit and leave the other side to their obvious obnoxiousness. That's imo, hope I am not offending, but being honest since you did open the subject.

But ... I was totally shocked to see the "banned" notation under your username on your posts. And other users. And the locked threads. A dozen other ways for vb to handle that would have been far better for both you, but more so for the hundreds of licensing-owning spectators.

The silent spectators are legion and they are at vb's actions in that forum, even where frankly some action was merited. The appearance of harshness and overkill will be with vb for a very long time to come.

 

And so Mark ... what's your vb exit strategy?

You asked for advice, but since you said on the vb forum you were leaving vb sounds like that's the next step. Sorry if you already explained earlier in the thread, I should have read it all before asking ...

 

QFT
THAT is what it is coming down to, and thanks to members like Mark who have proven they will kiss ass to get it back, it will now be expected of everyone.

Actually he did, but not what he expected.
He proved that customers will put up with anything and take the abuse that companies like IB will give them. Basically, he's going to lay down and take it Anything to keep your stuff going right?

BTW:
There are methods that are not in the "official" reach of vBulletin to update plugins and whatnot, you realize that, right? While I won't name them publicly, as they're used a lot by hackers, this is an excellent way to deal with things such as plugins and whatnot.

 

Unfortunately, this is EXACTLY it and why IB is laughing in the faces of customers and having the incredible gall to give them a middle finger upgrade path. They know that most customers will just blow smoke before they bend over and take it.

There are some who are very angry and have some very good reason to take greater actions than Mark. I await to see the turnout and it could get ugly and interesting.

 

Mark, you seem like quite a fine young man but you are more than a little over-reactive.

During the summer, you were hell on wheels toward vBulletin because you believed they were going to screw their customers.

Then Ray Morgan announced that vB 4 would be "free" to existing customers, and suddenly you were all sweetness and light.

Then Morgan announced the new price scheme, in which many customers are screwed royally, and you were furious.

Now they have given your privileges back and you are contrite, penitent, fully prepared to believe in the deep inherent goodness of the vBulletin higher-ups.

I understand a lot of this because I see myself in much of it. However, I would really strongly suggest that you try taking a longer view. In particular, do *not* attribute human characteristics to a company. Your parent may whip you and later you feel you should forgive him or her. When a company has whipped you, it has whipped you. End of story.

Companies are not good things to have strong feelings about.

 

Although I very much appreciate Wayne getting the ban lifted, it shouldn't have ever happened in the first place... and fixing that error doesn't deserve praise. (But its certainly a step in the right direction)

My feelings remain exactly as they were before the ban. The entire team at vB needs serious work, and the product could use a lot of work too.

 

I agree about companies, but companies are run by people. You have to get your head around the basic premise that any company exists only to make money - some people struggle with that - and things like "good customer service" are not done because the company wants to be nice to people, they are done becuase they want to make money.

I am fine with that, it's the capitalist system.

Once you're over that point, it's a matter of looking at who runs the business, who works there, and whether they are the kind of people you would want to do business with (assuming you've decided you want the product). That's my perspective as an individual, not as a fellow business. If I was a fellow business, the same issues would come into play - I would just need to make a profit.

Perhaps that's where Internet Brands underestimated things. They perhaps assumed it would all be like a business-to-business market, and the passion some people have for vBulletin wasn't factored in.

Either way, my discussions last night helped throw a new perspective on things. Those running the company are simply seeking to move the software in a certain direction because that's where it needs to go.

I still don't agree with every change, but screaming and shouting about it like a silly child was never the way to go.

To take your points in order, yes I wasn't happy at first, then they announced that active license holders would have access to vb4 after all and that placated me, although I did say it was subject to the final announcement. Then the final announcement came and I think I just went off on one. That's where I went wrong.

Anyway I think I've shown enough contrition over this. I've said I'll accept any and all criticism over my "changes of direction". If I've anything in my defence, it's that I never really wanted to "hate" the company in the first place and was always keen for a reason not to.

 

"Members like Mark" helped get some of the earlier decisions changed, like having to pay for vB4 even if you had an active license.

I haven't kissed anyone's ass. Nor have I been silenced. Ray hasn't asked me not to criticise. He's asked me not to run around the forums spouting off for the sake of it. Well, words to that effect anyhow.

If I had been asked to "gag myself" I'd never have run with it.

But I've also decided to stop fighting other people's battles and only look at myself and my own situation. Would it be worth losing my site just to make a political point that benefits other people? Very altruistic but also very stupid. the graveyards are full of principled men.

PS I know about the other methods...the legit ones don't have the range and the others...well....depends how secure you want your site.

 

I'll reply to more posts later, it's 7.45am in the UK and I have to go to work, so please don't think I've ignored you if I haven't responded

 

One hour-long drive to work later....

I don't have an exit strategy. I said I would be sticking with vB 3.8.4.

Now tat I've spoken to Ray, and now that I've seen the gradual improvements going on with the style, I feel there's possibly scope for me to move to vB4 at some point. However, even if the company had behaved impeccably, there is a LOT of work for me to do to move my site to vB4, and it will be finding the time and motivation to do that. So it's one of those "hopefully some time in the future" things.

it took me an age to go from 2 to 3 for the same reason.

 

To be fair, I only ever said I wouldn't be moving to vB4, not that I'd be leaving altogether. I did at one point look at IPB, it's a good product but it just wouldn't work for me on my existing site. If I was starting a new site, then maybe.....

 

Let me get this straight... of all the things that concern you about vBulletin it's the style that is most disconcerting? So being held up for at least $130 immediately or $175, getting banned, and seeing a half baked product at this late date wasn't as nearly as irritating? Exactly what did Ray tell you that made you do a total about face and become all kissy?

 

Where, exactly, have I become "all kissy"?

I agreed not to disrupt the forums with personal campaigns in the way I have been, because I accept I got carried away.

I never said I was suddenly going to agree with everything vBulletin do, nor have I been asked to.

If I don't like something, I can and will say so, but using proper channels and in a businesslike way.

Everything that could be said on other matters, from my perspective, has been said and I'm now focusing on providing constructive feedback on the style, which they accept they need at the moment. To be fair, it is bearing fruit as significant improvements have been made.

I'm not saying there aren't still issues, however, I'm no longer going to give myself a heart attack fighting other people's battles. I bought my upgrade license, I said my piece, we are where we are, and now, for me, it's time to leave that behind and look at vB and what it brings, because vB is where my site will be remaining.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the company's behaviour, my own has hardly been beyond criticism. So it's better to move forward in a positive and constructive way.

 

:S People do stuff different and think different than others and all of the sudden is "ass kissing" and/or "THE MAN IS TRYING TO BRING US DOWN, MAN!"

 

One question, Wayne... given that I've said I won't discuss anything but technical support issues on vb.com, do I not unbanned from there? It looks like you guys unbanned Mark but not me.

 

My unbanning from vb.com came out of a different situation - I spoke directly to the company and we sorted things out from there.

It was actually a very productive conversation and I'm glad I did it. It, along with Wayne's assistance here, has "cleared the air" a lot for me.

I appreciate some will think I've "sold out", I haven't, but I had to do what I felt was right by me. I wasn't ready to become a martyr, I'm too young!

 

WOW

 

Wow, is all i can really say. I'm not convinced the direction VB4 is going to suit my needs by any means, which saddens me. I've been with VB since 2.0 and i was really hoping to see 4.0 materialize into something great. Aside from the lack of features of jaw striking additions, just the total treatment to a customer whom holds a valid license is bullshit.

Im curious, how many people are looking at IPB instead of 4.0?

 

The latest Internet Brands press release cemented my decision. The guys are already giving themselves awards for record sales of vBulletin 4 and that it is the best forum suite they have ever brought to market. It's too bad that this group of clowns never brought ANYTHING to market and especially not version 4. They have also talked about all the great things going to happenin 2010. Don't expect to see miracles for vbulletin 4 until 2010 and that is a whole year worth of wait and ability to manipulate. For the past 2 years these guys got bonuses from your use and free mods that you gave to them. Now they are soaking you for money and not delivering and getting their bonuses. Been there, done that, see you later Internet Brands.

Looking at IPB, it is a real product. It is miles better than vb4 right now and you'll be able to build your forum around a very good piece of software. If you haven't bought vB or invested in it, I see absolutely no reason to do anything with vB - you will have to recreate your entire board (expect basic data) in order to move from vb3 to vb4. Why bother? Invision has an excellent platform, better integration in my opinion, and in 8 months you'll have a mature board instead of fumbling of what to do with your hacks, skins and everything else with vb3. This isn't just being mad at IB but the reality.