vBulletin/IB Declares War on Users

For those of you wondering why many vBulletin licensees are still furious, now you'll understand. Wayne, I know you're here listening and I'd be very interested in hearing what you will or can say - if anything at all.

I'm a reasonable guy who owns multiple vBulletin licenses with extras too. Today I was officially given notice that all of my licenses with expired maintenance subscriptions may only be upgraded to vBulletin 4 - I am being denied my right and ability to stay current at version 3.0 by simply paying the maintenance fee. The only options I have been given are (a) pay a whopping $175 to upgrade the forums, or (b) pay $190, which is 130 + $40 maintenance + $20 more because Internet Brands said so and is holding the shotgun.

Wayne, there is absolutely no justifiable reason why Internet Brands didn't provide us with any prior notice of these changes. There is absolutely no justifiable reason why, after denying our right to keep current with our license, IB decided to tack on an additional $20 per license to upgrade after not providing prior notice to licensees about this sudden change of terms. If vBulletin sent notice about it like it did the presale, numerous licensees could have paid the $40 and all would have been forgotten. So why is it that Internet Brands simply refuses to allow vBulletin 3 purchasers to simply pay the $40, even now? Did you guys run out of inventory on the vBulletin 3.x updates?

Now I wonder... if there was discovery pursuant to litigation, even a small claims court filing, would it reveal the fact that Internet Brands might have thought it could generate additional revenues by NOT sending reasonable notice to its customers like it did with the presale? Perhaps knowing that this would take thousands of customers by surprise who will end up paying more money to Internet Brands as a result?

Let me leave you with a thought and I hope it is worth the $20 per expired maintenance subscription that Internet Brands has been gouging from its long time customers as well as the forced upgrades. Hypothetical:

What if every vBulletin license holder in California filed a small claims action against Internet Brands? For just $15 they could sue for:

(a) any excess over $130 paid: the fact that Ray clearly offered a $130 price for all "active licenses" to upgrade which, according to the license, means everyone with a license except leased licensees. Don't think that people don't have a very good chance of winning this case. If you don't believe me, read the licenses that you have which none of you have read.

(b) any excess over $170 paid: the fact that it was established that vBulletin 3 was sold based upon a clear term that maintenance could be purchased for $40 at any time.

So how many cases might be filed? 30? 70? 300? If Internet Brands doesn't send an attorney down to each case, they will risk default to see who is right and who might have even more egg on their face. Wouldn't it be even funnier if, after filing, these plaintiff's made a discovery request for emails related to the upgrade?

Right now I'm wondering if sharing my thoughts will result in IB retaliating against me in some fashion. I'm just so mad that after I was told to take the discussion to private ticket status, I was given the same shaft that could not be said straight out in the public forums when this question was posed about staying with vBulletin 3. Could it be that policy was not to make things clear in the forum and answer these straightforward questions, hoping that many would just quickly upgrade during the two week presale panic? Could it be that if you did answer these questions you'd have numerous angry responses because IB's refusal to allow people to keep their 3.x licenses current reeks of something rotten?

Thanks for listening everyone and I'm sorry that my comments cannot be more positive but now you hopefully will understand why - and I hope it was worth it, Wayne. Differences could and should have been settled easily but this is about IB pocketing as much money as it could and letting the customers know who is the boss and who is holding the shotgun.

 

He's actually not anymore, thanks to some over-welcoming and generous members.
See: http://www.adminaddict.net/forum/vb...-ib-turned-ship-around-4672/index2/#post56718

 

That's the best news I've heard today. His inaccurate and false information won't reach the vulnerable customers who he advised to buy 3.8 licenses when he knew that they would need to upgrade days and weeks before the new licensing agreements came into play.

Whatever it takes to make a living even though it's a questionable one.

 

Sadly i don't live in california or i would file a case in small claims court. All i can do is file a BBB complaint and hope it has some sort of effect on their name.....

 

Nick - were any of these remarks directed toward Wayne personally or just his employers? I didn't see anyone specifically call him names.

Quite frankly, as much as I can appreciate Wayne's situation, if he has chosen to stay employed by and associated with a company that doesn't feel it can defend its actions, then that is his decision. Others have resigned and moved elsewhere. As Shelley put it so well (did her comment just disappear?), if you're going to sell for the devil and claim its to just pay the mortgage, don't expect your victims to be sympathetic. If he couldn't stand the heat or speak honestly and openly, then I wonder whether his contributions provide much usefulness beyond the moderated forums at vBulletin.

Nick, I think you have to expect continued negative comments toward Internet Brands and vBulletin as a given unless the company does something significant to address what is clearly, IMHO, wrongful actions. Until they return cash they should not have taken and quit demanding forced upgrades and inappropriate fees, the ship hasn't deviated off of its course at all like David likes to think. Listening to customers? The proof is in what they do with your money and so far they have just laughed and issued more press releases. If you want to just ignore this issue and cover your ears, eyes and mouth because all you want to do is talk about styles and vBulletin stuff, then go ahead and say so. But other members here will see it for what it is - a desire to stamp out all the negative but unfortunately well deserved negative publicity that Internet Brands and vBulletin have currently earned.

Small claims suits in LA against Internet Brands or in SF versus either office (I think they have one there.) This would be amusing and for $15, it's easily worth more than the upgrade fee.

 

Well said slinky........

 

I do indeed expect negative comments, and I don't mind them. What I do mind is when it becomes bashing and mud-slinging fiesta with name-calling and downright childish behavior. It's some of the most uncivilized postings I've seen in my life.

I'm not sure if this is directed toward me as well, but if it is, then I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I don't understand why people think I only want "dandy smiley" talk in regards to IB. I don't care what your opinion of IB is - feel free to voice positive and negative comments. The problem is, as I mentioned above, when it is done in a childish and unproductive way.

You can see an example I provided, in this post: http://www.adminaddict.net/forum/vb...-ib-turned-ship-around-4672/index3/#post56751

Your post (#1 in this thread), is a prime example of how these types of discussion can take place in a mature manner.
Are you praising IB/vB? No. Are you stating that you fully support their actions? No. Are you only talking about fuzzy bunnies? No.
On the other hand: Are you using foul language? No. Are you attacking people or entities, personally? No. Are you using inappropriate and immature styles of writing? No.

How acceptable is your post in my book? 110%. People think I only want to allow happy discussion, but it has nothing to do with that. All I want is posts to be made in a mature and productive manner, just like yours.

 

There have been many posts, not just in that thread, calling Wayne and Steve names.
It's childish, immature, and unprofessional.


I think people are also forgetting that this site is not all about vB/IB.
It's an ADMIN site, not a vB support/bash site.

 

Can you please show me where these posts are? I have mentioned the two staff members numerous times and haven't called them names, other then acting like thugs.....Not one time have i posted what i really think of them, yet everyone keeps saying name calling has transpired......What i have found from searching is people being overly sensitive to having the names written in public......If you look at my post (vbulletin saga), you will see that i lay out what happen to me and people jumping in telling me, how dare i talk about this in public!!!!

If you read my first post and added comments to each of these comments just on the first page, all i did was mention names and people got sensitive. Not one time in my post do i call these guys names......Maybe i am missing something, but i have tried being respectful to Nicks site and i have tried not to disrespect his site by calling these guys names. I have however kept using the names of those staff members because they (in my opinion) are acting very unprofessional by using their heavy handed tactics.

So because i am an admin, that means i can't use the names of the people who are employed by a company that has treated me, a customer like a sack of garbage? I am totally confused here. I even stated earlier that i received an infraction from zachery, but you don't see me bringing up his name in this so called name calling fest? He was very respectful in handing me my infraction, which i believe i deserved when he gave it to me.

I am sorry that you guys have become friends with these staff members i have talked about in my postings, but becoming so emotional about it is sad. I have tried to be nice to those that disagree with my postings and have respected your sensitivity, but i won't be silenced for discussing what they did to me........

 

They're not talking about you hotwheels, they might be talking about various other users that don't like where Internet Brands and vBulletin is going recently. Sure, you may not have insulted them (at the recent time), but others did...

 

Thanks friend, i know i have brought up the names and kept trying to think if i had used profanity here. I have on a couple of other sites, but out of respect here, i have tried to refrain from it.

 

I never said your name, hotwheels. Don't take everything so personally.

 

Exactly. You're probably one of the least of the problems, generally speaking.

 

Kewl........I got a couple of tongue lashings yesterday, so i wasn't sure.

 

Agree, be positive and turn the other cheek and you'll be good to go. lol