Vbulletin.com Saga

Here is my story, My name is hotwheels and i own a website named insanemustangs.com. It is a site dedicated to the ford mustang enthusiast and i started the site 5 years ago.

When i decided to open up my own website, i had experience with vbulletin v2.0 and vbporals. So i went to vbulletin.com and purchased a license, i went to vbportals and purchased a license there too. From the 2 pieces of software i opened my own site. (for those that don't know what vbportal is, it is a cms program written to work within vbulletin forum software). Over the years, i continued to pay my renewal fee for upgrades and upgraded my site when released were made public. I too became a contributing member of vbulletin.org, where i started using hacks built for vbulletin software and building a website to fit what i thought an automotive website should look like.

Part of what i had thought would be cool on my website was my own blog system. After jelsoft released one, i purchased it right away for $50.00 and placed it on my site. It wasn't very friendly with the forum software, but i liked it and looked forward to the upgrades, which i had hoped would make it friendlier to use.

A few months ago, i received my vbulletin renewal subscription notification and immediately paid the fee. After paying the fee i went to visit vbulletin.org to see if there were any new mods written that i might like to use on my site. Upon my visit, i ran across an article in the announcement section of vbulletin.org, which turned out to be a leaked letter to team vbulletin, which it discussed upcoming software changes and pricing changes. After i read that, i went right over to vbulletin.com to find out how much of this was true.

When i first asked at vbulletin.com, the leaked info was denied and vbulletin.org removed the leaked information leak. What wasn't denied was the fact that IB had purchased jelsoft and that vb4 was being written and that there were some forced licensing changes. The forced licensing changes i am talking about was jelsoft taking my blog license and making it a part of my forum license. (this told me that what i read in the leaked info was true and was the first step in changing my license structure.)

After a few posts (trolling) at vbulletin.com trying to get better answers to my questions, a member at vbulletin.com whom has allot of post counts there, posted an image directed at me, so in return, i posted images back to that person. Immediately, Steve Machol infracted me for doing so. I tried to reply to Steve via pm (how he contacted me), I found he has his pm system shut off. I then tried to reply in the thread he infracted me in, and he then infracted me for asking why he infracted me. Then, i rereplied and a couple members posted that i should use his name (steve machol in a post asking about my infractions) and i was infracted for that. I left the site for a few days after the multiple infractions.

When i came back to the site, i had run across a post that asked specific questions about software, costs, etc....I posted that the cost was going to be $285.00 and that you would have the choice of forum software or a suite. You would now loose your project tools as a stand alone purchase, your blog software as a stand alone purchase and that you would have to purchase a suite to get these, which will include a new cms. My post was then countered by Wayne Luke who said that this wasn't true and was only rumors. In return, i posted the snip-bits from the leaked infromation, which was word for word of what i had typed. Wayne Luke then pm'd me and told me i was a trouble maker and gave me a serious infraction. He then deleted my posts and closed the thread. I then left the site for a while to work.

This time when i came back, Ray Morgan had announced the costs of the new software, as well as what was going to be included in the suite. I then stated that the announcement was b.s. and that it was wrong for the IB management team try to force the changes (no more blog) unless we purchased this suite. At that point a few members whom love all the bitterness about paying members feelings, started to taunt me again. I tried to ignore them and continued to type how i was right and that ray morgan, steve machol and wayne luke had lied to customers and had been harassing those of us that were trying to stand up to them. At that point, another member taunted me and told me i was a kindergartner, and i lost my temper with him. ( i reported my post to the moderators, and received a serious infraction for cussing and fighting, which i accepted). Probably a half hour after that i posted in a thread which i agreed that i would like to be a part of a civil lawsuit and logged out. When i went to log into the site, steve machol banned me forever, for violating vbulletin.com forum rules, which i too accepted. If vbulletin doesn't want a customer to share their thoughts and feelings about being taking, then ban me, i am okay with that. I left vbulletin.com and moved on.

Well the day after my lifetime banning, i went to vbulletin.org to log in and found that my license was suspended. In a pink note, it suggested that i log into my members account and check my license status. When i went to do this, i wasn't allowed to log into my members account. So, not only has steve and wayne ban me from vbulletin.com, vbulletin.org, they suspended my license which i had paid my renewal fee for updates.

I do not know the legality for what steve machol has done to me as a paying customer. I would think however that steve and waynes boss's would talk to them about what they have done and are doing to people.

I agree that i should be banned from vbulletin.com forums and don't really care to go there anymore, since i feel they are liars and they are full of crap, especially wayne luke and steve machol whom attacked my personally while trying to get people to understand what was about to happen with their licenses. (if people accept what is happening, then so be it, but in my opinion, this is a bunch of crap and i hope IB goes bankrupt.) However, i don't feel i should have been banned from vbulletin.org nor should i have lost my license to upgrades that i paid for in advance.

(Side note: I did submit a ticket to ray morgan and asked why steve machol was allowed to harass people, suspend licenses, etc...I too asked for my money back for my renewal fee. Ray denied that steve was harassing licensed members, which i supplied him with proof and ray said that the information i showed him was before ray was in-charge and that the person steve had harassed, had his license reissued. Ray also refused to discuss my question related to my renewal fee, by telling me to wait and see what was going to be released. He felt i would be happy with it. I told him that i know what is going to take place from reading the leaked info, he told me that the leaked information what just that and not an announcement.) Well as it turns out, ray lied to me and the price announcement was exactly verbatim of what was in the leaked announcement.

It still sickens me that vbulletin is acting like they have done nothing wrong, and continue to use their heavy handed ways of handling customers like me, whom are very upset and feel we have the right to be. I too am tired of all of the people that have accepted what vbulletin.com has done, and tell me to get over it. Well i don't want to get over it, and i would love to be apart of a class action lawsuit against the new management team. What vbulletin did by merging my blog license into my forum license and then tell me i won't receive anymore blog updates unless i purchase their useless suite, should be illegal. I paid for my blog license and my forum license, which were different of each other by way of purchase. Vbulletin should have been forced by my license to continue supplying customers with blog upgrades. It is not our fault that vbulletins project tools was a failure and in order to make it look profitable, they took our blog license, merged it into our forum license and then made a suite only purchase program. Which is extortion......trying to force my to buy software i don't want, so i can continue to receive upgrades for software i do want and already paid for.

Steve machol and wayne luke, grow up and quit trying to force people to bending to your way of thinking. I am a customer and i am unhappy with the direction IB is going, and have the right to state such, without being harassed by you internet bullies. I kept my posts in the licensed customer section, and did not post my thoughts in the public forums. Ray Morgan, please give me my money back if you are going to let these guys ban/suspend my license. I have asked for my money back before, you have not done so.

 

Your signature is just plain childish.

 

Well thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to comment on my thread.

Hotwheels

 

Read the vB TOS and Licensing Agreement you digitally agreed to upon clicking 'OK' and paying the fees - That's in relation to the "legality" of your banning.

 

I totally agree with my banning from vbulletin.com and accept that. I am not happy with the way things are going there and am man enough to accept what happened. I do find it childish that wayne luke calls me names and steve machol makes me his focal point because i defended myself from taunting from one of steves friends.

What i do disagree with is the fact that i paid my renewal fee for the year, and found out that they changed my license by merging my blog into my forum license. I also disagree with steve suspending my membership at vbulletin.org. Not sure where it says in the digital agreement that they take my money, change the way they operate and force me to no longer receive upgrades for software i purchased. Placing my blog license into my forum license should have been illegal in my opinion. I paid two seperate license costs for the different software.

 

Okay - That's fine.

The way things are going and why they aren't man enough to accept what has occurred?

- I will say what I've said a million times this week.

"Not one single company is perfect. How many companies have done everything their users’ complaints have asked for?"


If all companies in the world announced such drastic changes, there would be public outcry and bloodbaths in the streets.


Steve Machol and Wayne Luke?

- That's a private matter between you and those two individuals, and now Ray Morgan. Bringing it onto this forum, or any other forum administration forum is in bad taste. Deal with it in private. If they did mudsling at you, you're not helping the matter by spewing their name in such crude manner. Two wrongs do not make a right.


The license doesn't state any of that, you're right. It does, however, allow Jelsoft/vBulletin Solutions to revoke your license(s) should you violate one or more conditions. I'm sure causing problems in the public eye, degrading Jelsoft/vBulletin Solutions employees or volunteers in public or private, etc. are grounds of revocation. News flash! - IPS, Burning Board, FireTalk, etc. all do the same.

 

I totally respect your thoughts on wayne luke and steve machol as well as ray morgan. I tried to handle my feelings about what was going on with each one in private, steve does not allow pm's and if you try to ask in public, you receive infractions for bringing administrative actions public. So there you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I contacted wayne and asked wayne how come he couldn't have just pm'd me not to post snippets of the leaked infromation, and he replied by calling me names.
I contacted ray morgan via the support ticket system and he denied all. Protected steve from harassment of other licensed customers by stating that "this was before i got here." If you do a google search on steve machol, you can find links from unhappy customers that steve machol turned if for piracy, only because they didn't understand what he was asking them. Since you can't contact him via pm's and only discuss things with him in public, you can't get a straight answer from the guy. After you get frustrated with him, he then turns you into the vbulletin piracy team. Which because steve is who he is within vbulletin, they automatically suspend the license until you can prove you have a legal license. This happen to a christian website not to long ago, a christian website hehehehehe. Person runs a religious website, had an argument with steve and he had the license suspended.

I am not sorry for my sig and people don't have to take me serious about how i feel about vbulletin, steve and wayne, which is fine. If this website supports these guys, then so be it, change my sig. I will not do so, since i honestly feel and believe this. I go to every website i can find that is rallying against IB/Vbulletin.com and will continue to do so.

I believed that keeping my thoughts about what was happening with vbulletin, in the licensed customer section, didn't violate any policy of vbulletin.com...You can't even find a link on vbulletin.com which describes the level of infractions and what they are for. I am a decent person, and all steve or wayne would have had to do was pm me asking me to not do whatever it was i was doing wrong. They didn't have to attack me in private and then ban me for stating that i was right.

People should really read the leaked information and see what IB really thinks of us as customers.

 

I'm sorry, but I just find it in extremely bad taste that this kind of mud-slinging is permitted by the staff on this site at all.

It makes AdminAddict look very bad, and not at all professional, imho.

 

Censoring all of it is an even bigger turn-off, IMO. We'll be just like every other forum that censors discussion that isn't all happy-smiley. I think we're all adults, so I believe it's safe to be more lenient.

If you have suggestions as to how things should be handled, I am always willing to listen, and my PM box is never full. Please direct your ideas and suggestions there.

 

I am not trying to sling mud peggy. I am trying to explain my experience and my misunderstanding of how my license can be suspended for voicing my concerns about the software i purchased. I have paid for my software renewal, i tried to ask questions decently at first, then the harassment started.

Like i stated, i accept the banning from vbulletin.com, but i do not accept the fact that steve has the power to suspend a valid license because he disagrees with me. I have not done anything to vbulletin.org, i have even shared mods i made with vbulletin.org members. Ray morgan should just give me my renewal fee back and i would not bother them anymore, that is all i asked for anyways. Instead, steve bans me, suspends my license and cuts off all avenues i had to object to this type of treatment.

I can tell from allot of the statements i have read, some are still very positive about vbulletin.com and that is fine. But how come the only ones that ever post at my threads are supporters of vbulletin.com? or they are beta testers of vb4?

I feel in my opinion that vbportal cms is far more superior to anything vbulletin.com can build, this is my opinion and my opinion only. I too believe that vb's project tools is junk and i have no use for it on my site, and if others like it, they used to have the choice to purchase it but again, this is my opinion and my opinion only. I do however like the vbulletin forum software and the blog software. Yes it does anger me that vbulletin took it upon themselves to take my blog future upgrades away from me by trying to force to purchase in a suite, software i don't want. How come people don't understand that? Is that worth suspending my license over? I didn't start personal attacks on anyone at vbulletin.com, they came after me. I even received an infraction from someone named zachary, but you don't see me hatin on that person. He infracted me and i deserved it, but he didn't belittle me and call me names.

So please look at this as mudslinging, that is fine. I feel i have been taken for money that i work hard for and that i have the right to be angry about loosing my money. If you sent me money for something, and i just kept your money, you would be upset with me too. I am not sure how to type what i am saying without coming across as rude or slinging mud. Peggy, i know you are a beta tester and have feelings of greatness for team vbulletin. I respect you and what you have done for our community, but am sad that you too, feel i have no right to share my experience and ask if what steve and team have done to me is legal.

 

And allowing bashing isn't a big turn off?

Lenient or you just like the popularity on what is making AA? Bashing central or how some of these people call it 'constructive criticism'. Wayne in numerous times has been there to help and I don't know if you noticed but he hasn't been on.

Many other people are tired of the bashing that goes on here, seriously it's more annoying than hearing a child beg for candy when they can't have it and there IS a limit. And do I really have to ignore all the users who are speaking of vB in a offensive manner no matter how much they call that constructive? I might as well not visit this site since almost all the threads would say 'You've blocked this user click to view post'.

 

As I said in my previous post:

If you have suggestions as to how things should be handled, I am always willing to listen, and my PM box is never full. Please direct your ideas and suggestions there.

 

Nick, thank you for being openminded and if you feel i am crossing a line, please let me know and i will delete the things that are crossing the line.

Those that don't believe me, please pm wayne and ask him how he treated me. You don't have to accept what i am saying. I don't even know wayne and he doesn't know me. But he called me names for posting pieces of the leaked information in quotes, answering questions that were being answered that nobody knew (If that makes sense). (I would take a question from a customer and then a quote from the leaked information, and using quotes, show the answer to the question.) Wayne gave me a not only an infraction, but a serious infraction which never expires, for doing this. When i asked wayne why he did this, he responded by calling me names.

Maybe he was having a bad day that day, and i can deal with that. The least he could have done was relooked at what he did with me and apologize. I never called him names, used profanity with him or anything. I was just answering questions, as they were shown from the leaked announcement. People can't deny the leaked announcement either, and sometimes i wonder if everyone that post's about knowing what is going on here, has actually read the real leaked announcement.

 

Censorship is a pretty slippery slope.

It seems there are a few around crying foul right now, saying that Internet Brands are employing that tactic and it's not right.

I appreciate Nick letting people have their honest say.

 

Appreciate you changing your signature. Wayne has helped many above and beyond the call of duty on this and other sites. I was also about to close this particular browser tab.


I'm not sure what has happened in your exact situation, and I'm not sure it matters, because I believe your situation was not handled well. But I do have a question. Did this happen today (Sunday)? The last time there was some bannings it was last Sunday I believe.

 

It happened a couple of weeks ago. My work schedule doesnt' allow me allot of time to go on the internet to find out what is going on in the world of vbulletin.com.

I am still at a total loss on how vbulletin can take my blog license and merge it into my forum software license? My blog software had a different expiration date then my forum software. The two softwares were purchased at different times in history and now vbulletin.com merged them into the same expiration dates.

How come Ray Morgan and his team can't see that most of the anger about the software changes isn't about the money, it's about the choices they left us with: 1) forum only purchase 2.) vbSuite purchase. Allot of us don't want a suite and you would think that after all of the post's stating this, ray would look at offering the different products for sale individually again. Forcing people to buy software they don't want and will not use isn't right and it isn't a good way to run a business.

 

Paragraph 1 - thanks I was curious.

Paragraph 2 - to be honest, merging the functions of the blog into the suite makes a lot of sense to me, if the suite has the blogs in them then why spend the effort to maintain a separate product? Not just maintain, but support, which huge amounts of effort. Strictly speaking they have done nothing with your blog you now own, obviously for practical reasons moving forward it is almost useless long term unless you are going to maintain the code yourself.

Paragraph 3 - There is a lot of anger for a lot of reasons, and I am extremely upset about several things at the moment. Mostly regarding the the upper managements decisions in the future based on how the last few weeks were handled. For example, I honestly do not think they anticipated the amount of negative publicity they received, and that lack of anticipation does not bode well for future decisions they need to make.

 

Censorship is a bigger turn off.

As long as the information is presented in a professional manner, (which it has been), there is no reason to censor anything.

And its not bashing, its his side of the story.

Jelsoft/internet brands is no different from any other company that comes under the public eye. They just do not want stuff posted on their site - which I understand. vbulletin.com is a place of business. Wal-mart would not allow protesters into their stores to disrupt business. If you want to protest, go somewhere else. Stand on the side of the street, carry your sign and yell all you want.

It appears that the managers at jelsoft / internet brands are merging your opinion with your license and using bans to strike fear into the herd. The more people that are banned, the less will speak out. this is typical corporate business practice.

 

I do very much tire of seeing anything that disagrees with the company being dismissed as "bashing".

I wonder what it is that makes everyone think other people should all simply agree with what commercial companies say and do without question?

 

That is not the point Mark, and you very well know it. I don't agree with everything, in fact with very little, that IB has done.

But I don't come on here calling Wayne and Steve names. That is bashing. Wayne has been a very big help to alot of people on this site. Anyone see him around here lately? Nope. Probably won't either. Good job.

I come to this site for info, to enjoy the other members, to help, and be helped. I thought that's what this site is about. What it is very quickly becoming is a site where disgruntled vB members can gather and say whatever they want to, about whomever they feel like saying it about, and if anything is said about it - OH MY CENSHORSHIP! Bull crap!

As for myself, I am leaving. I will return when this site once again becomes the kind of site that I thought was going to stand above the rest.