vBulletin 4 coding quality?

Not the template code, I mean the PHP code. I have heard rumours online that the coding of the vBulletin backend is pretty poor or worse than version 3, but no one who brings up this point seems to be able to elaborate on it. To anyone who's run it, is there any issue?

Comments on ?vBulletin denies busting downloads in paid-up protester ban? ? The Register

Some people like nexialys there and someguy calling himself 'spinball' here:

vBulletin Community Forum

Seem to be worried about the coding quality of the recent versions. Is there a legitimate worry?

 

Well the new developers primarily worked on CMS and search. They are only bug-fixing the new template engine which was pretty broken when the other developers left.

That being said, I think many people who write addons are not programmers but hackers. Modifying the new MVC code (which they asked for) in the CMS is definitely going to be a challenge for them. They will need to learn new skills to do what they did before. Registering variables for templates will be their Achilles heel at first. Though once the learning curve is through it will all be good. A similar comparison is the style authors out there that relied on MainCSS for their changes instead of knowing CSS and how it affects the rendering of a page. They will also have a learning curve.

The quality of the actual code is in my opinion, on par from what was done before and more inline with industry standards in its formatting. Coding Standards for vBulletin are changing so there will be a combination of the two styles until the forums are rewritten in a later version. Simple matter is that different Lead Programmers impose their own style on a project so the code will be different but I find it a lot easier to read and follow. Others may find the older procedural code easier to follow.

 

I've moved this to the regular vBulletin sub-forum.

 

How can one base any real thought on those two items cited.

Spinball says there are problems but does not back that up with any kind example for fear of being banned. He/she may as well asked the damning question with his of post "So when did you stop beating your wife?"

As to the other item cited, well, that person has his own agenda and freely admits it. Wants to create his own suite of software, so why not beat on vB to create fear, uncertainty and doubt.

The back end of vB 4.0 kight be total trash, then again it might be the best thing since beer. We are not going to know until vB Solutions lets us play with the beta, any speculation from a very small sampling we see until then has to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I've only heard this "rumour" from Spinball, whose forum I respect a lot, but since he's not prepared to back up these claims I would dismiss them.

 

Reserve judgment until you can actually see the code for yourself?

I dunno if I can do that...

Seriously, anyone passing judgment on the codebase who isn't a confirmed beta tester, should be ignored. Especially if they have nothing to back up this claim. This whole discussion is pointless, IMO.

 

I don't buy the idea that anyone can say something is flawed and not back it up. Nobody else is saying this and the alphas have been in use for a bit now.

There's a lot of pro-Kier and co feeling out there, and I think that has an impact on this. I loved the work of the old developers, but they chose to make themselves history - fill respect to them, but now let's give the new team a go.

Incidentally, Ray told me that the team is made up of 50% "old" staff anyway. I really don't think there's a problem here, the code is not going to be worse, just different.

 

So if all the lead developers left vbulletin but all the people who picked up their drycleaning and made coffee stayed, then half the "old staff" is still at Internet Brands.

 

All the old developers didn't leave. 3 Developers left off the previous 7 developer team. The people brought in have worked with vBulletin on some of the largest vBulletin sites out there.

 

The point is that anything Ray Morgan says can easily mean something else, such as is the case with most used car salesmen.

 

Thanks for everyone's answers, I was just a bit worried about the prospect of vBulletin 4's coding being less than fantastic. However, how come all the people who apparently criticise the code won't just post their reasons? I see no reason for this, especially as:

A- They can post it away from vBulletin.com so it isn't censored.

B- Why do they care about getting banned from a forum they probably won't be using in the future anyway?

 

No, Ray was referring specifically to the development team when he said that - as Wayne confirms in this thread.

 

Cheatmaster - Many of us upgraded because we had no choice. Not paying IB meant never being able to sell your license if you could. So we still need access to the forum, including of we stuck with version 3.

Mark - you and Ray sound really tight, always talking, pals like Mutt & Jeff.

My point was that in the world of spin I don't take anything face value. A few weeks ago I heard that my active licenses could be upgrade for $130. I saw that again in a press release for $30 more now. I never know what the truth is, unfortunately.

 

Yes of course, because me asking Ray a question and him answering it results in that.

Anyway you don't need Ray to confirm it, the names of the developers are quite well known. Freddie, Andy, Darren etc- all "old" Jelsoft developers, and all still there.

 

If you had taken the time to digest the information I think you would have found that the new $30 increase in the discounted price went into effect after the initial pre-sale. Then again, people like yourself are so incensed with vB Solutions and IB that no matter what they do fault is found.

 

Who knew programming could be so divisive?

It seems to me one man's good code is another man's bad code (or woman's). I hear a similar statement to the OP's about code quality on just about every project I've ever followed. I work in web hosting, so I know first hand that "bad code" and bad coding practices certainly exist. I've seen that first hand. I can say, though, that the mistakes are generally made by those who don't really know what they're doing.

However, I hear this time and again for both free and paid services. This assertion always seems to be made by a disgruntled party in one form or another. Questions about why the code is "bad" or "poor" are pretty much met with statements like "it just is" or "trust me" which don't garner much trust. In this case, we don't even know that the person(s) involved has/have actually seen the code, further making the point moot.

With programming, there are often enough different paths to reach the same end. One may argue that a method is more secure. Another might submit that the same method is inefficient and slow in comparison with his to which the first retorts its not nearly as secure.

Until someone can put a reason in front of me why vBulletin 4.0 is bad, I'm not interested in an empty assertion because some are ticked off about a pricing change and a string of customer service mistakes. If one wants to argue that vBulletin hasn't treated customers in the correct manner or that the new structure hurts their wallet and makes them question their loyalty, go for it. However, these nonsensical allegations of poor code and the like are pretty much a waste of time, and will damage your case more than anything.

On top of that, yes 3/7 (or roughly 43%) of the original developer staff has left. That still leaves a majority of the same developers (factually) and that's not a comment on anyone's job duties or anything else. Give it a rest.

 

gnatster, you dont seem to know what I am talking about. Read the latest press release again. Then again. Then once more. If you still haven't figured out the problem, read your license. It is not the $30 that bothered me - what is an active license? It has been pointed out numerous times but Ray is never wrong nor is the company. Why do I have a bone to pick with vB? I am angry for the same reasons as others who were not appropriately informed of financial implications of a pending major licensing change.

Mark, since you got what you wanted you seem to have been reporting what you and Ray talked about at each opportunity. I just thought you guys seem cozy. I got a good laugh at how a pg rated comment about your pal offended you. That's all.

 

Call me silly but I think an active license is one that is up to date. It means I'm either in my first year of ownership or I have paid the annual renewal fee to keep my license active. Anything else is a lapsed license.

However, this discussion topic is focused on the quality of code contained in the vB 4.0. Until we all get to see the code when vB Solutions decides to let us all see the beta we really cannot make any informed judgments. All we have seen to this point is conjecture from disgruntled parties. Until these people provide real examples how do we know that they are not just trying to create even more fear about the product.

 

Regarding the first part, an active license means any license to use software which isn't terminated. If you have the right to have a forum online, your license is active. This is why many professional people were confused.

But hey, that is not the issue here an we are side tracked. One man's good code can be another's bad excuse. Very difficult to say IMHO and I agree with you. Have to know where to draw the line both ways and question serious allegations like that one with a good detailed explanation. Just don't call anyone a wind bag.

 

Here is a youtube video, I thought the first 1.5 minutes was interesting. Spinball made it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJkVHcqfEBQ"]YouTube- A demo of the new Sphinx Search 2 for vBulletin at AVForums[/ame]