The vBulletin Bashing-

While I really adore the fact that you all allow users to openly express their feelings about the vBulletin forum software and users, I believe it has been taken to an extent where someone needs to control what is being produced. 'Cause in the long run, it will really hurt AdminAddict.

It seems that the staff is openly engaging in hateful, harmful and derogatory comments against Jelsoft.

As an alternative, maybe having a private, unseen "We hate vBulletin" forum would be better.

In addition, it seems more and more users are joining for the reason to bash vBulletin, and not discuss forum administration. And if a thread gets deleted or closed, the users get "curious." Prime example can be seen here. There's a good way, and a bad way to bash - doing it privately and not so bad is the way to go, in my opinion.

AdminAddict really seems to be taking a turn for the worst.:nailbite: -:2cents:-

Although this thread was created by Nick, and this forum was created, still very unhappy.

 

Not to add, the recent bashing of Wayne Luke. How can any administrator allow bashing of a community mentor. The man who has helped many members, etc.

 

I think there's a fine line somewhere. And I have no idea where exactly that line is drawn. I don't think AA wants to be known as a place for people to come have a slam fest against vB/IB. But AA doesn't want to censor relevant discussion either. And it's obvious there are a lot of passionate people about this topic.

So to find that line...that's the difficult thing. What is relevant? What is strong opinion? And what is just simple flaming/bashing?

 

I absolutely agree on this count-bashing Wayne Luke is just stupid.

 

Yea,,,,,, lets just suppress people from being able to post their opinions.

One of the things that keeps a free enterprise system in check in the customers being able to provide feedback. Could you just imagine if nobody was able to post a review of an product - companies would produce cheap junk and consumers would never know the difference.

When a company makes changes, especially like what the people at vbulletin/internet brands have done - its in the best interest of the entire market for consumers to provide feedback and their opinion.

If negative feedback about vbulletin is suppressed, then so should positive feedback. Because they keep each other in balance.

 

yup there's nothing to be gained by bashing individuals serves no purpose IMO and rather takes away from the point you are trying to put across, but i guess what line's need to be drawn to differentiate, construcutive / negative / bashing etc is pretty much open to interpretation of the individual concerned and frankly i dont see how AA can effectively handle these to everyones satisfaction the new forum created is probably a good step in that direction .....from a containment perspective...

 

Yeah, let's suppress the opinions, I agree with that.

Reviewing is okay, but what you all are doing is bashing. There's a fine line before reviewing and a slam fest.

If you want to review, post a "constructive" one in Misc. Discussion. Because clearly, you guys aren't reviewing, you guys are having an ultimate slam fest - one that you all are enjoying, and feel like AA is the place for it to happen.

If you really were unhappy with vBulletin, you'd leave. You guys are talking up all this muck about a boycott, yet you all still have your forums running on the software. Had it been that bad, you all would leave - then Jelsoft will notice something. "Hm, something must not be right, all of our longtime customers are gone." :yes:

Upgrading to vBulletin 4 is not imperative.

 

It is, the private forum was an excellent step in that direction, but it's not "private." Ultimately, it's public. The users here will go blab about it to the other unhappy vBulletin customers, and they'll all migrate here with the intention of talking about vBulletin, not adidng the content that's necessary.

Why don't all you unhappy customers go flood vBulletin.com with your unhappiness. Let's see how far you get.

If they ban you all, they're taking away from their userbase, and the content they need. Ranting here at AA ain't getting you people anywhere - the only Jelsoft staff that check here is Wayne Luke and Ray Morgan; along with Lynne - and do y'all think they'll go back and talk about what has been said here - I think not.

But you know what they say, one man's loss, is the next man's gain. :yes:

And in this case, that saying fits.

 

I wouldn't be so sure. If you're interested in keeping your forum up-to-date, then it's probably a good idea. When do you think they'll stop making security patches for 3.x? How long after that will it take for hackers to nuke vBulletin 3.x and make it not a safe system? Not as drastic, but by far more extreme is the mod community-what if you want the latest mod? You may need 4.x. Sooner or later you will have to update.

 

Not to mention the bashing of Wayne Luke... I am disgusted on how Nick is handling it!

Wayne has taken time out of his busy schedule to be here to help AA's vBulletin users and that's what he gets in return? Not cool. And AA's losing its reputation. Had I been him, I'd leave in a split second. Because he certainly does not deserve what he's getting. Point. Blank. PERIOD!

I am DEEPLY disappointed.

 

Understandable.

But as easy as it is for someone to nuke vBulletin 3.x, it'll be just as easy to nuke vBulletin 4. Granted, that's not the way to go, but I'm sure it's in the work as we speak.

My point is, play nice or get the heck out.

 

I'd also like to mention the recent introduction by Hotwheels - was mentioning Wayne Luke being a "thug" necessary. Was it also necessary to say that "Ray Morgan enjoyed the free money he received and maybe he'll split the proceeds with his moderators?" I mean c'mon, your profile over at InsaneMustangs says you're 43 - you're acting like you're three. Singling out staff of Jelsoft that probably helped you is not the way to go. Nevertheless, I can understand you were mistreated over at the official vBulletin site, but why come over to AdminAddict and talk about it? The time you spent posting the unnecessary content in your introduction, could have been the time sending your side of the story to vBulletin. Further more, talking about it here will get you no where. To be sure, if you have a problem with vBulletin, they offer many contact methods here. You can email them, submit a ticket, and even call them. I mean really! Instead of utilizing the methods they offer, you decide to scurry over here and tell us your sob story. Wah wah. Get over it.

I really hate to seem like I'm trying to 'cause a ruckus, or even bad blood, but this has gone on long enough, and needs to stop... very soon.

 

Please don't take my posting out on nick. Nick is in a very bad spot with all that is going on in the vbulletin community. I changed my signature out of respect for addminaddict members. What you all are calling bashing, i call stating facts. I started a post in the legal dispute section, and being the professional that Wayne seems to be, he posted in the thread. I have allot of respect for that type of management and he is a decent person in my mind for doing so. I still don't like how he called me names, but that is my problem and i will deal with it.

But please quit taking this out on Nick, he has done nothing but handle this as a great administrator. Since this site is based on administrating forums, i really think after things calm down, other admins will be able to learn from the things nick has done here. Everyone getting all sensitive and threatening to leave because they don't like what is said, should take a deep breath. Everything passes over time, some good and some bad, but it does pass. I am not going to preach about censorship because i don't feel that is really the issue here, the issue is many of you like wayne luke and steve machol. I have had bad experience's with these 2 guys and i can't change that, all i can do is try to move on. But please quit acting like these guys can't have a bad day and possibly act in a way that isn't normal, to you. 1) Is wayne helpful here? More then likely, and that's not in question. 2) Can wayne have a bad day and say something unprofessional out of anger? Probably, he did to me. 3) Does wayne have his handsful dealing with the changes being made by his boss? I would say yes.

Again, please don't take this out on nick. Put me on your ignore user list, or better yet, you can do the adult thing and submit a poll to have me banned from here as well. I am willing to accept that. I firmly believe in the democratic process and will move on and away if that's what the majority wants. My own opinions however will not change on how these guys are acting, period.

 

Hi Hotwheels!
I am not taking just your post out on Nick, nor was my intent to single you out. Your post was the first, and most recent to have be produced, that I could find without going thru tons of replies.

Not to mention taking it out on Nick, but it will all fall back on Nick. To be sure, he is responsible for what is posted here.

What you call stating facts is called based on personal speculation, and what personal speculation is, is opinion. You feel like you were mistreated, or otherwise handled poorly is an opinion, not a fact. Nobody can prove that. Because what you call mistreatment can be called fair treatment by one. To be honest, however Wayne handled you, is fair. Two wrongs don't make a right. Further more, if he had been a decent person in your mind, slashing back at him was not called for. If someone is decent, you don't put the bad things about that person on the forefront. At least I wouldn't.

In addition, at this rate, things will never calm down, because of the mood that has been established here within these few weeks/months.

In your attempt to move on, you need to left what has happened in the past, in the past, and go on with your future. Trying to move on and then mention what Wayne or Steve did to you only hinders your attempt. People who want to move on try to forgive and forget - and I believe that's what you should do.

Last but not least, this is not being taken out on Nick but instead trying to suggest methods to him to make AA better, and keep its good name. Putting you on my ignore list is out of the question, and I will not do that; nor will I submit a poll for you to be banned here. Taking a break, maybe, so you can get away from the drama on the net.

I say, forgive, forget, move on without mentioning your pass with vBulletin. I also think taking a break will be good - but again, majority is one more than half. And in that case, we'd need 621 people to agree with this post. Not happening.

If anyone should take a breath, why don't you - and the rest of the unhappy customers.

 

Okay tomzilla, great points. First off, what is this site about? It is called adminaddicts. I am an admin, i assume you are an admin and Steve, Wayne and Ray Morgan are admins. As admins, i am stating my experience and my thoughts on how in my own opinion, shouldn't act. I do not treat my members like that, i do not ban. I do not censor, nor do i close threads.
From allot of the response from my posting here, i can already tell that allot of people tend to administrate their members in the same methods being undertaken at vbulletin.com. This helps me to understand that i am not part of a majority, i am more of a minority from the way i administrate my website. Nick just happens to be in the minority too, because he is willing to look and listen objectively to what is going on around him.
Now, what is a thug? Thug, a person, who treats others violently and roughly. In my own experience as an administrator, i would not have given a member an infraction for posting snippets of a letter that was out in the public eye. As an admin, i would have asked the person to remove it and ask them not to do it again. Most people would remove the post and show respect to the person asking such. That is not what happened as i have explained before, i was infracted and when i asked why, i was called a name. To me, wayne was acting like a thug, period. As an administrator, i don't think that is a very professional way to act. Maybe others here feel it's okay to act in this manner, but to me, it isn't and in real life, face to face, i wouldn't accept it. As a customer, i damn sure don't have to accept it. I have tried to explain this as plainly as i can, so that those who shocked that wayne would do this, won't be as sore about it. But apparently, my reaction and thoughts of this are falling on deaf ears, and seems to have hit a core group that rules in the same manors.

To address the ray morgan issue, I have done everything i can to talk with ray, and he will not answer. I have submitted tickets, i have pm's him, i have even tried starting posts to him, only to have my tickets ignored, the pm's ignored and my post's deleted, which led to a lifetime banning. I have tried to state that i will not move to vbulletin 4.0, unless there are more options availble to users. I strongly disagree as an administrator, with not listening to your customers feedback. I only want the things i paid for previously and from the way things are being handled, i will not get that. I want my forums software and my blog software, without having to purchase project tools and the cms. You have apparently been to my site (thanks a bunch) and have seen my cms i currently have. If you go to the box on the upper left hand side and use the down arrow, you can see that my main page isn't just a cover page like vbadvanced, it has layers of information and choices. I can actually manage my website's content from there. The software in my opinion is par none to anything available, and it will take a few years before vbulletin's cms even comes close. So, i have asked for a refund of my upgrades money. I am not asking for my license money back or anything like that. Vbulletin knew that the changes were coming in the way we receive updates and they knew i would no longer receive blog updates. I asked for my renewal money back, and nobody will answer. Thanks to adminaddict, i learned i could file a complaint with the better business bureau and try to get my money back. I am so banned from vbulletin.com now, that i can no longer ask anything. To that, as i have stated before, steve machol suspended my license, ray let him and they have kept my money.

In the end, i am stating my opinion and trying to see if others feel the same way, as administrators. Apparently, you guys don't and have voiced your opinion about this and have even tried forcing your views onto nick, by threatening to leave and not come back to the site unless he makes changes (the change being me). So go ahead, ad an age to me (3) if you would like, go ahead and try complaining till nick changes the way he runs his site (openmindedly), and accuse people of scurring here to cause trouble.

I have shared my story, accept it or not for what it is, you have that choice. From my aspect, this is what has happened, i have no reason to lie about it. The staff at vbulletin.com are acting very unprofessional and are trying to force people to accept what they say and if you object you are banned. If you ask for your money back, you are ignored and then banned, period. I would not administrate a site like this, and i don't condone these types of heavy handed tactics. ( I am the type of person administrating my site, that if you buy something from someone on my site and they screw you out of your money, i will pay you back out of my own pocket. I have done it, and will continue to do it.)

 

Lets be honest though, the 4.0 changes are pretty bullshit...

EDIT: Note to self-refresh thread more often. >.>

 

Lol, i did the same thing.........not refreshing.

 

A long post with the same stuff you've been producing all along. I get it, it's no use to continue posting these longs posts. It only takes up unnecessary space.

 

I agree. and I am late, I see we already have a new forum. Woot.

 

Why is it some people have to be up on high horses here?

If the admins on here haven't deleted something its probably because they don't want to. Calling them out in a thread 14 times isn't going to do anything but make you look like the one causing trouble. This is why I don't post much, because its all people acting childish and trying to push their administrative views on the whole forum.

Advice is fine, complaining, adding crap in your signatures "getting your act together" is just immature and really has no reason to be said. Sorta like the pot calling kettle black.

Immaturity is all it is.