No passion? Last words on the subject

Nick... you've let other members rant about one of my posts, then tear into it again... and I return to find you close the thread conveniently. This has happened more than once. I also found a warning because I used the term "like a "jacka$$"? Are you kidding me??? Considering I've seen the "bombs" drop here and found multiple instances of personal attacks against me, I respectfully will point out to you the benefits of equal moderation without being afraid that your esteemed members might be slightly upset. Don't worry - you can keep the precious honored users as I'm now definitely not returning.

Mike said: Suck it up. You made a business mistake, placing all your eggs in one basket. And you've been telling all of us about it. Incessantly. For weeks.

So Mike's expert web opinion is that we DIVERSIFY our web site investment? If you've created a successful platform that works for you, then you can replicate the entire site several times and create multiple communities. It's webmastering 101. Perhaps you will install 8 different forums so you won't worry about one of them and spend all your time upgrading each and every one of them. Beyond ridiculous.

There was no business mistake since what Internet Brands has done is highly unusual. I'm considering taking them to court, even if it's small claims, because they breached the contract. As was said before by others, the big company is daring the users to do it, needless to say an incredible discourtesy and insult to customers.

You embarrassed yourself ripping into me how nobody is twisting my arm and not for a considerable amount of money... yes, I have a right to feel the way I do. You just have moved on and decided what doesn't affect you is unimportant and you can launch your attacks into those of us that do. If you didn't like my post, DON'T READ THE PASSIONATE DISCUSSION THREAD!

Mike wrote: While people were p*ssing and moaning on the vB.com forums, I was quietly contacting Ray Morgan to get details, rather than myth and innuendo. I was looking at vB4 Alpha1, the day it was released. It was then I realized it was time to get out. And I did just that. But let's remember, it's just been me shooting my mouth off, OK? It will all look so much better for you, if we continue to convey that fallacy to the onlookers.

Mike - so you still have provided NO "proof" that Ray Morgan knows nothing about project management, that he wasn't involved at all in any of the decision making process, or that he didn't get a nice bonus for the record sales. Instead, you keep spouting "myth and innuendo" and trying to deflect criticism. I can understand that it must be pretty embarrassing for you after you've decided to launch full force into a fellow user.

Did you take a look at Ray Morgan's resume? I have. He knows something about project management. We have no idea whether he was the mastermind or just a guy who went along with this whole scheme and left with a huge bonus. Where is the PROOF that you talk about? Lots of talk but nothing to support your tirade. The only information we can glean from your post is that you're an intuitive genius who had a conversation on "the inside", saw the alpha and moved on. Best not to flame others with a blowtorch lest your heat reflects back at you.

Ryan - http://www.adminaddict.net/forum/vb...ion/ray-morgan-retires-5249/index5/#post62872

There was no animosity directed towards you. I didn't tell you how to spend your money. I politely pointed out that while you feel that the new licensing system works better for you, it still would cost at least twice as much to use it. If that's the premium you'd be willing to pay, then that's fine truly but I do feel differently. In no way did I intend to attack you and perhaps you're just feeling that way because of the antagonism in the thread generated by Mike, who particularly enjoyed listening to his prolonged post trying to ridicule another user but ended up contradicting himself.

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Goodbye Nick and everyone else... this time I shall not be tempted to return. As was sent to me privately by other thoughtful members the first time I left, it seems that much of the interest here is to sweep the bad thoughts under the carpet. The moment any other opinion comes in that ruins your picture of vBulletin, some honorary members here lose their minds. And if you tick off the honorary members... well... we can't have them upset! Considering I didn't start the torrent of personal attacks or use profanity (like the "P" word in an esteemed member's post), I don't think I need to discuss this matter further - especially after receiving another silly infraction for "insulting another member." Ridiculous.

Considering this is supposedly a "passionate discussion" section, it is amazing that you're not permitted to do more than whisper. I wish all of you the best of luck.

 

Considering the dude, Mike, jumped the ship to IPB, I think he was on vB, you wouldn't call that 'Ruining the picture of vBulletin' when for the user, the picture is already ruined.

If you didn't think further discussion was needed, you wouldn't have made this thread. In the passionate discussion people have done more than whispering, just because the thread was closed, which is was because it truly got out of control and the topic was about Ray, not how you got [****][****][****][****]ed over by vB, so you are pissy that Nick closed it because he was preventing more insulting posts? oO

Dramatic outro, dramatic. Laterx

 

I was editing my post and saw yours. My post was on topic -about how Ray Morgan left or "fled" vBulletin and how I was wondering whether he got a bonus or not, etc.

The only reason the thread went out of control is because Mike went ape telling us all how he had all this proof about Ray just being a victim underling, a nobody who had no PM skills, and then went to town about how Ray and nobody else twisted my arm into paying to update my 3.x forums. I have no basis for animosity and I'm just a fool who didn't "diversify" his web investments, etc. It turns out Mike has no proof at all about anything he said about Ray - none. He just shot his mouth off and then made a mistake about the arm twisting - yes, I have to upgrade just to update my 3.x as you know.

What ticked me off? Nick decided to give ME an infraction? It's ridiculous. Actually, you're right - it's insulting.

 

Lets put this in the open instead of contacting Nick and any others directly.... that makes a ton of sense.

You seem to just want to start trouble.

 

This should be handled in private. I would never allow a thread like this on my forum.

 

... As it usually gets ugly. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way on my site, and it being the first (and last) time anyone acted in such a manner, I didn't conduct myself very accordingly either.


Take a deep breath.

 

I was contacted privately about this so perhaps one person might value my opinion. Thanks for the note but I'm really not sure I just feel that this is the appropriate forum for me. This is public because it's not about Nick - it's about my fellow member admins here, many of whom I'm finding have incredibly thin skins. This is far from the first time we've dealt with this issue and I was hoping that with this post, some of you would take a step back and look at what you're saying - yes, those of you in this thread who think I'm just trying to be a troublemaker. I'm just frustrated. I remember someone writing somewhere here that if you can't deal with someone using the word slime bag (or was it dirt bag?) regarding a third party and not even a member, then you shouldn't be on the Internet. Thin skins and double standards.

Rocket - With regard to what you wouldn't allow on your forums, it's probably why I'm not there. If you can't have a mature, respectful open conversation then, IMHO, it's probably a conversation not worth having. And quite frankly, why is it that none of you have even talked about the fact that Mike came out of nowhere and laced into my post with what turns out to be baseless, angry words. Was it because several of you had too much fun piling on and using words like pwned?

Nick... I really wish you the best. As a fellow admin, I understand the predicament. You're doing your best to try and I certainly don't want you to have to deal with problems here. This is why perhaps it's better that I depart. I've got tons to do elsewhere. Best to you and I'm gone but you know where to find me if you need me.

 

We're humans, too. We have emotions like you do, Slinky. The people at vBulletin have emotions as well. We all accept what is right and what is wrong, and the wholesome value of software that is worth the money it costs. On the other hand, the intolerance, vengeance, and unaccountable behavioral issues you display are both offensive to everyone involved and are without any redeeming value.

I'm urging you and other trouble makers to stop making mischievous threads to spark argument. Your reasoning and complaints are unfounded and I hereby offer my full support of your account's expulsion from the premises of this website by the administration.

 

Exactly....before the original thread was closed and without good reasons for it being closed.

I support a discussion that is on topic, even if its circumstantial even speculative on this matter.

Having no chance to redirect the thread, was not giving it a chance to calm down. I actually support Slinky's effort in looking really at the accountability aspect of Ray and others. Excluding the mud slinging of course.

An attempt to not redirect the thread to be on topic is basically not providing any effort, even when quoting a post just to ditto it.

I agree at that point it was going way off base, but it could have been reined in.

 

Sorry, but you are full of speculations and assumptions, wanting everyone to understand YOUR feelings, yet you are un-capeable of understanding others. EDIT: WAIT! I forgot, it's the internet, no one gives a shit!

You're one of those admins who have incredible thin skins. It's a private matter between you and the member, doesn't mean it should be known to the world and because it was not about Nick, why are you holding Nick responsible? in the first post stated you will leave the site due to Nick's action. Do you know what you're talking about?

 

As an admin you should know that when the admin closes a thread, you don't go start another one to argue about why the first one was closed. I doubt that you would allow this on your own forum. I know I wouldn't.

I support Nick's decision to close the thread. It had gotten way off track, and was running headlong into insults, lies, speculation, and silliness. This one will probably do the same thing if permitted to remain open.

 

Putting the high-school like drama aside here for a moment....

The bottom line here on the real topic at hand - at least as I see it - is that many vBulletin customers, obviously feel that Internet Brands have been VERY unfair with them and many feel like they have been royally screwed over. And yes, many are fine with the changes too - the "sheep pen" that is now the vBulletin support forums is certainly proof of that.

As for us here, we can debate this topic all day long, fight about it, argue about it, or whatever, but the truth is, that we'll never really know what happened behind the closed doors of the Internet Brands executive offices.

What that closed thread reminded me of, was a bunch of pundits on T.V. all arguing and fighting with each other and all claiming that they know "the real story". And in the end, you couldn't really hear what anyone was saying, as many were talking over each other and then things deteriorated into mostly arguing about, who's turn it was to speak, instead of a debate about the real topic of discussion anyway.

And for that reason alone, it was time to cut to a commercial.

Who made the decisions? Did Ray make them or was it "Passionate Bobby Brisco? Did Ray make them and screw up and is he now being pushed out the door? Or is he actually just retiring? Or was this all by plan? etc. etc.

The truth is, we'll never really know.

Oh sure, from time to time, we'll get one person's version of events coming to light, as did recently- be that from an ex-employee or whatever, but in the end that's all it is - namely, one individual's version of "the story".

Rest assured, in time, like everything in life, the dust will settle and I guess vBulletin 4 will be judged to be a success, a failure, or perhaps and more likely, something in-between.

Slinky, to me at least, I understand your frustration on the vBulletin matter. Basically, yeah, you've been screwed over. But there is an old attage that says, "you can't fight city hall". And even though in practice, sure sometimes you can fight and maybe even win, the reality is, that it's usually not worth it in the end.

So I guess there comes a point in time, when you have to make a decision on, when it's time to stop being upset and when it's time to "do something about it" and take action!

And I think what you're seeing in some of the responses to your posts, is that "the time", for many around here, has already come and gone.

It kinda sucks I know, 'cause from reading your posts, it sure looks as if you're not quite at that point yourself yet. But rest assured, that time will come and you'll get there.

All the best with the process, I feel your pain,

-Gordie

 

You are just full of sly remarks. First off, I didn't even say what I would allow and disallow on my forums, so you might want to re-read this thread again with some better reading comprehension Mr. Thick Skin.

No one cares that Mike came into your posts because you're a big boy and whining and complaining really has no point and I don't want to hear it.

 

I support Nick's decision too (assuming it was actually Nick that did it, but I support it anyway).

I reaffirm my full support for this site and the way it is managed. There's no censorship of opinion, merely of insults and rudeness. Long may it continue.

 

I'm closing this thread, too, for obvious reasons. Peggy hit the nail on the head: when a thread is closed, that isn't a sign to go re-create it to discuss the same thing. What it means is to end the discussion since it has wandered off-topic.

I'll remove this thread in a little while, but I'd like to let others read through it before I do so, so that they can understand the situation and perhaps learn from it.