Is xenForo Dying?

Well I read this, then would you believe spotted another thing 1 minute later worth reading: Obituary: Online Forums Have Died.

The quick answer "are forums dead" was given here by: areforumsdead.com.

Well, Kier has just been online at XenForo for about 2 seconds then did another swift "Harry Houdini" vanishing act on us. God knows what's going on there, first Kier and now Mike not seen for quite a while. Honestly, I've given up bothering these days. If they want to play "hide and seek" - I'm not coming looking for them anymore, they can hide in that bush for as long as they want!

As for locking threads when people are asking questions about XenForo 1.2, pity that's been happening (and it has been). The last update mentioning what we could expect to see in XenForo 1.2, was posted way back at the start of Jan, 2012. We're 3 months on now and people are bound to start asking more questions. Maybe the better option instead of keep locking threads about it all. Just post a new update, problem solved!

I'm not having they can't find time to spare "30 minutes or 1 hour" out their busy development schedule to create a new XenForo 1.2 update post, the world won't come crashing down around their ears in that time. And considering they've had to close a few threads of late asking questions, you'd think they'd be glad to get an update out there calming people down a little. But no, not the case it seems.

I really don't know what to think anymore? :shrug:

 

Just to add on the above, it's not that bad for me because my XenForo license still covers me until November 2012. So either way I'll get my hands on XenForo 1.2 without me having to renew again, I was a late buyer into XenForo unlike most. But for those who's renewal time is coming up now, or around this time. It must be awkward trying to make the decision if they should renew or not with so little being said.

That's why I can't understand their reason for not rushing getting an XenForo 1.2 update posted, seems daft to me?

 

I think the honeymoon period is over. There are a number of issues at present:

1. The disappearance of Kier. It's not that he isn't around that I have a problem with. It is the way that no-one at Xenforo will post to say WHY he isn't around. If he's off sick, if he's not posting for legal reasons, if he is taking a holiday are all examples of reasons why he might not be posting that we'd all be happy with. But to give wishy-washy answers just makes the whole thing look really, well, creepy. The last time this was discussed, Mike decided to wade in and deflect the whole debate on to him, whilst noticably failing to give a STRAIGHT answer. Where is Kier? Why is he not posting in his own forum? Why won't anyone say where he is? Why is Xenforo willing to let posts like this undermine and damage the product?

2. Locking of posts. Brogan, the main moderator, is an asset to Xenforo and I acknowledge he's probably between a rock and a hard place. But locking any discussions about this subject is seriously damaging my goodwill as a paying customer. It looks like either a cover up, or the staff won't even tell him what's actually going on.

I'll cut to the chase. In the absence of rational explanations and honest, frank communication from Xenforo I'm beginning to wish I'd gone to IPB instead. No matter how amazing the software is, if you lose goodwill and lose faith in the company it is never a good product to choose. If I'd been looking at switching my forum today instead of last year, I would have picked IPB. And now, well I am actively looking at IPB as a contingency plan because I am losing all hope with Xenforo.

 

You've summed things up very well, it makes no sense. Said it before, I'll say it again. It would take them 30 minutes or an hour at most to post a new update to help "stop people asking question getting locked, help persuade people to renew, give people something fresh to digest". They can only benefit from posting another recent update about XenForo 1.2, especially now we're in the 2nd Quarter for it's release cycle. So why does it seem they're avoiding doing it on purpose?

Common business sense alone should tell them looking at the locked threads of late, along with the many "LIKES" people are giving those posts asking questions saying nothing themselves. That they need to get an update posted ASAP, along with explaining what's going on instead of keep beating around the bush never giving a straight honest answer. Things will only get worse, not better until they do it!

I'm seriously starting to wonder if they might be in big trouble and are getting ready to do something about it, because everything they seem to be doing is sending a smoke signal they're not bothered anymore, nor what customers think.

 

I have my theory: xF guys realised that making their community into "celebrities and fans" situation became hurtful for them and/or business.

Their "fans" were more interested in discussing Kiers foot, convincing newcomers that xF is truly only real option on market, jumping on guys migrating from xF or daring to dont like something in xF. It looked like those guys dont even care about stuff, its "Keeping Up with the xenForo Team" or other "American Forum Software" drama that they want.

I think this is when xF team looked at their community and said "man, we created a monsters", and propably came with one or more of following conclusions:

1. Those guys scare ruin our brand
2. Those guys demand too much time

Either way they decided to change their community. They asked their moderators to keep users on short leash, to teach them what sort of stuff is and what is no longer welcome on xF forums. On same time xF team decided to roll new communication policy: only company updates, and only when there are news really worth it. No more Kier & Mike participating in chitchats on cats. Or posting pics/status updates on their real life to feed people's curiosity what their Kard... xF guys are up to.

Sure, it may look evil and ignorant, but I find this policy wise. If you look back, I remember when IPB guys too avoided in participating in other threads than ones that covered their software and really required them to give their response on. You are here to sell your software, not entertain your users with discussion.

When you reach situation when your users expect you to voice your opinion in off-topic discussion and get unhappy when you dont post in it, you know you raised them wrong.

They will propably post status update when next xF release will reach alpha quality, or they finish something big enough that makes it worth posting. Until then users have to simply live with what they have, or convert out.


(this is coming from guy who just skims their forum from time to time)

Yep, a hour to sit down, gather information on advancements from last status update, draft status update on software project, fix mistakes, rephrase/cut stuff that may cause drama.

Tell me name of universe you live in so I can move there.

 

I've just been using twitter and spotted a few people are tweeting remarks about Kier and XenForo. In fact, even Matt Mecham is talking of a sorts about things, he's been tweeting to iBotPeaches and others about that thread getting closed on XF. This is going to be funny, just wait till "Shelley, Forsaken" and few others read Matt making comments about it all, they'll be all over him like a pack of mad rabid dogs foaming at the mouth. :frown:

The same planet you dreamed up your - ridiculous "theory".

 

An IPS staff member also made a remark on another forum, that their developers do not go "MIA".

When you gather together all the posts about Kier and XF on Twitter and other sites, it starts to look very bad. This is why I do not understand why no-one from XF has posted to say where Kier is and why he is not posting in his own forum any more. Each day they are digging a bigger and bigger hole.

Do you know what? Even if Kier appeared tomorrow with XF 1.2 it would not make up for this shambles of a communications cluster f***.

The biggest joke is when people pile in threads on XF in defence by saying that there IS active development of the product. How do they know this is no-one from XF bothers to post any more?

 

Well, that's the thing isn't it. But still, they might release a new version that blows the current XenForo one out the water, along with other forum software like IPB with it. You never know until XenForo 1.2 arrives, they could well have an ACE up their sleeve just waiting to be played yet. They have kept everything very hush, hush and top secret with this one!

They're doing exactly as you'd expect, taking advantage of the situation to do some clever IPS sales marketing. You can't blame them for doing it though, I would in their shoes, it's dog eat dog on the web.

Good point, they don't know! They know about as much as the rest of us right now, which is very little. But some like that "Forsaken" won't admit it, they are too wrapped-up playing the good little fan-boy role intent on getting every thread asking questions locked flying in with both feet. This is the reason people are taking it onto other forums like this and others now, they feel there's just no point trying to discus it at XenForo anymore because they keep getting locked effectively shutting customers up.

 

That's the sad thing, that paying customers are having to vent on other forums. How and why did it get to that point. I wonder if vB and IPB have spoiled us by being big corporations who can afford to have some people code and some people doing admin and some people doing PR. With XF it's just Mike and Kier doing everything. I think that Kier comes across as somewhat arrogant - that's actually a compliment in the sense that I respect the drive and skills he has to work so bloody hard - you need some arrogance to keep going like that. But it's a disaster when that has to deal with customers. That's what is so badly missing from XF - customer care skills - a genuine sense as a customer I am valued. If you need a real life lesson in how your product can be brilliant but end up pushing people away because of lack of awareness of what customers need, the reassurance they need and the communication you need to engage them, Xenforo is it. The hope is they will look at this situation, fix it and learn from it.

 

Interesting theory, but XenForo is not as bad now with fan-boy rubbish happening compared to the first 6-12 months after they went live. I wouldn't say it's even a problem they suffer from anymore really, bar the odd one or two, but you'll always get that! Thing's are no different than IPB or vBulletin, if you went there telling members XenForo is the best thing since sliced bread and the kind of response you'll get back.

I agree with you on that one, it is best to try and distance yourself "somewhat" from customers to look more professional and not let your personal feelings get involved (ever). Something Kier always seems to struggle with I think, mainly due to his own self-confident ego getting the better of him at times, that's just his own character and we all have flaws, nothing wrong with that. But very unlike Mike though, who for me should be the (company front-man) because his quiet character is much better suited for it and you never see people bad mouthing him. That tells you a lot!

There's nothing wrong with keeping a much lower profile with customers, just as long as you still keep that regular flow of information coming through to please them. Don't underestimate how important it is to keep customers updated with fresh news on a regular bases, it has to be done and what makes everything tick and gives people a sense of worth - that they choose the right company to do business with. There a huge difference between cutting yourself off from customers to look more professional and still giving regular news updates. Compared to doing that and giving no regular information out, it's business suicide!

Oh! And I guess that one release day makes up for the "cluster [****][****][****][****] in communication" that's took place for many months beforehand. Na, think again, thing's don't work like that and people remember things! And then what after that happens? Will they go back like before telling nothing until 3-7 days before another release is made, which of course could be months away again putting things right back to square one again with a complete lack of communication. Maybe the boss at ASDA should say, if you don't like the price of our bread, piss-off and go buy it as TESCO instead. Oh! I can see that going down well (as you put it)!

I don't think your "Theory" holds much water at all, more like a balloon full of water with a 1000 pin-pricks leaking everywhere.. :thumbup:

 

I was linked to this topic from Twitter, and I'd like to add my two cents.

I like reading developmental updates. I have the RSS feeds in my email account for both xF and IPB. Whether I'm going to upgrade my board or not. You don't just make products at a current state and then leave em there. Xenforo is far from a matured board product, and I hope everyone knows that. I made a topic,and looking back on it, I worded particularly bad/rudely. It was an impulse decision based on my Twitter talk with some other admins.

The topic was locked without even as much as a link to other information. If tons of clients are asking about this information, why isn't there a stickied topic? It just makes me mad that they would lock a customer's topic without even as much as an explanation. To get your topic locked on IPS, you have to be some stubborn rock who either insults the staff or be a spammer.

I posted my question on AdminExtra, to vent after I was locked. They all seemed to defend xF saying it was none of my business. While I agree, I think I have the right to know if development has halted for a few months or not. The last update they had for Xenforo 1.2, was spam management from StopForumSpam. I know, from trying it, that SFS takes like 99% of the spam and 25% of the legitimate users. I don't feel its an accurate spam detection service, so without that. I know nothing more of the future xF updates and its been 3~ months.

Lots of people harped on me at AdminExtra for wanting to know about Kier's personal life. I don't want to know anything about his life. Even though I read Matt Mecham's blog about his life and see him tweet pictures of his kid. So its not that far out there to know a little about your developers.

I just wished my topic wasn't locked. I don't traverse those forums like I do the IPS forums, so I don't know where information is.

 

That's because you posted your XF topic on the wrong forum, I read it right away after posting and saw the insulting replies made to you from the pack of wolves. They're all outspoken XF fans, some are making money out the product selling themes and have a vested interest defending it to the hilt. Just a bad choice posting it there, you wasn't to know. They tend to change like the wind on AX, when they used IPB "it was all IPB this and that", now they use XenForo they've jumped ship with their views.

 

Having just TWO developers make for a lot of work.

myBB has NINE developers on the team.Making it possible to apportion work to deal with bugs and such while still developing for the future.

 

They've done an absolutely sterling job with XenForo in that respect, only two developers getting the forum software at the stage it's at today. You can't knock that! What puzzles me though, there's also "Ashley" on the team, you often see him show up at XenForo online. How comes he can't be used for posting some PR threads, give Mike and Kier some breathing room, even the mod Brogan for that matter? Anyone can post a thread after all unlike coding something, and thought he was supposed to be XenForo's "Financial/PR" type guy anyway. Yet, you never see much posted from Ashley.

There are avenues like that they could easy explore to help lessen their own workload in dealing with more regular PR announcements made.

 

How refreshing to see a thread on this thorny subject that ISN'T jumped all over by the XenForo "mafia".

I have been saying for many weeks that the current situation is not acceptable to paying customers. It's quite ok to insist the developers want "personal time" or whatever, but why not have them come out and say so? having first one, then both the developers simply disappear from public view, with every question about it shouted down or locked, is bound to lead to speculation and I cannot believe Mike and Kier were naive enough to believe otherwise, given their backgrounds.

Personally, I have lost all confidence in XenForo as a product and as a company. I'm glad I didn't "rush to convert" when I bought my licence.

I was going to hold on to my licence because I supported the company, but I'm afraid I don't now and I may even sell it - there's no way I will ever convert now.

 

Kier hasn't posted in his own forum since Jan 17th. Mike has not posted since March 20th. Ashley made his first post today since March 2nd; not to address why Kier and Mike have gone MIA or to put paying customers' minds at rest, but to post a one line response to a question about the resource manager: "There is no update just yet...". Thanks Ashley!

 

I do like XenForo, me having used the whole lot to compare against it. Out them all I'd still sooner use it first and foremost, even knowing it lacks some things found in vBulletin 3 wanted like "Ranks". It's such a shame to see this happen the past month or more gone by, what a humongous change too. And why things have gone this way all of sudden is even more bizarre, seeing as they appeared to be ticking along quite nicely towards XenForo 1.2.

First Kier, then Mike, now Brogan hasn't been seen online all day. I've been used to seeing him there 24/7 night and day (every day). There must be alien abductions taking place? What next I'm wondering, will we unexpectedly see the XenForo forum go down and vanish without warning?

This is just crazy what's going on and I don't buy into it being "fun and games" played either, this is their company unlike when they worked for vBulletin, not something they'd do for a laugh putting it's reputation on the line, their livelihood. I cannot believe they'd do such a thing on purpose so lightly!

I've no idea what's going on, the same as everyone else. But I'll say this, if they suddenly release XenForo 1.2 and all come back online like nothing has ever happened thinking everything is OK. Think they'll be in for a shock from some customers!