Do you claim ownership of members' posts?

Many of us have either encountered for ourselves, or read of others having this problem: One member decides they are done with your forum and demand that you delete all of their posts because "since they wrote them, they own them."

So what, if anything, have you put into your Terms of Service to avoid this issue? Do you claim full ownership of members' posts and anything that is submitted?

If yes, then how do you avoid making yourself liable for content that members post? For example, if a member posts a copyrighted article and you never notice it then 1) it's your property, because in your ToS you claimed ownership and 2) aren't you liable now?


Here are two segments from my Terms of Service. I'm not sure if this is valid in a court of law, so I'd like to know what you guys think:

Segment 1: Disclaimer

Responsibility of Posts:

Segment 2: Ownership of submissions

So is it realistic for us to own all of the content, but not be responsible for it at the same time?

 

Within our rules and guidelines etc we state that we do not delete accounts or posts under any circumstances and if the member wishes to leave they simply log out and do not come back.

I am sure we have a content part about all content being owned etc by us but were not liable for its accuracy like you mentioned.

I honestly dont know if what AA has is perfect and would do well in court myself, but it does sound right to me.

 

Those terms are from his Linnie forum.

I honestly don't know about this, but the way you have it worded, it sounds like you're still giving ownership of their posts to your members, but they agree to give you non-revocable rights to use them. In other words, it sounds correct that while you have the right to use their posts for your own wishes, you're not necessarily responsible for any inaccurate information, and you have the right to refuse to delete ex-members' posts.

Did you write your terms yourself? If not, where did you get them, and how would I get a copy?

 

My rules and terms are adapted and collected from a huge variety of sources, and I have modified much of them to my own liking.
Feel free to view the full versions on my forum: Lineolated Parakeet Forum - Forum Rules .... and take what you'd like.

 

Thanks!

 

^ Wow. That is one HUGE set of rules! I'll give it a read later

 

It's more than just rules. There are five documents in total.

 

Wow, that's impressive Nick! How long did it take you to write all that?

You make a very good point though. I believe our TOS is worded such that the members own the posts, but we reserve the right to deny account deletion requests. If someone with no posts wants their account deleted I will do it, but when someone has posts on the forum I don't like the idea of deleting the posts or account. I've never had anyone demand all their posts be removed, but this thread has made me consider adding a more detailed clause to cover this in our terms.

 

Nope, never in a million years would I claim ownership over members posts.

I'm pretty sure it could open the "new owner" up for ton of legal trouble and what not should the time ever come.

 

David, would you mind elaborating as to what kind of legal troubles one could encounter by claiming ownership of members' posts?

 

Say you take ownership of a post, and that user posts something illegal, or slanderous or perhaps a link to warez downloads.

Since you now own this post, they'll essentially make you responsible for it.

 

That's what I'm asking about in this thread - is there a way to both own the post, but also disclaim liability? Is that not essentially what I have done (refer to the two quotes in my original post)?

 

No, what you've done is the ideal situation for forum admins. You're basically saying that by posting on your site, their content volunteers itself for use as you see fit (What I'd assume is articles, promotion etc etc). By posting on your site, they are volunteering the content for you, you aren't forcing them to do it, and you've stated in your TOS that by posting/registering they've agreed to the terms.

Obviously you don't own the post nor are claiming the ownership of it. So even though you've used them in promotion because the user volunteered it to you, its still the users content and if any questions arise about it, you can simply direct them back to their post.

(I didn't read your entire posts here, I just skimmed them and I think I got the concept of what you were trying to get at?)

 

Consider this:

How many DVDs have you bought that at the beginning there is a bit of text explaining that "the views expressed in the extra content of this disk are not necessarily the views of" X Company.

But try and post that extra content on the web, and you'll be sue for copyright violations.

Isn't this kinda along the same lines? You do not claim the posts to be yours, and you may not agree with them, but you have the right to do with them as you wish, including refusing to delete them from your database.

Okay, it's slightly different, but I do think you've covered yourself the best you can.

 

You're exactly right, Chani. I have actually had to exercise copyright enforcement on a photo that one of my members submitted.

We discovered that somebody took a photo that one of my members uploaded to our photo gallery, and that person used the image as part of her logo for a business website. So not only did she steal the image, but she is using it for commercial purposes.

Even though it was not originally my image, I had the right to claim copyrights, which was granted to me upon submission, based on my site's Terms of Service.


This brings up another question for me: Could the user who originally uploaded the photo claim copyright? Or is that reserved for me only?

 

That depends on your terms.

There was a huge lawsuit right after 9/11 concerning the copyright of a photo that a photojournalist took while he was working for another company.

It was determined that the company that he was working for actually owned the rights to that image because the journalist was just doing his job for his employer, and taking photos was his job.

But, was your member working for you? No. He was uploading an image and giving you the rights to do with it as you please, but he ultimately remains the copyright holder of the image.

 

I would say if they actually took that picture, then they would have say on the copyright, but I am certainly no legal expert.

EDIT - Chani beat me to it.

 

Hm, so if I don't have the right to exercise copyrights on an image that is submitted, then how is it any different for text that is submitted (posts/threads)?

 

Do your members realize that when they submit their photo's they're getting copyrighted to you? Are they explicitly giving you the copyright to them? Facebook tried this, and their community went absolutely bat shit crazy over the fact Facebook tried to "own" any image uploaded to their site. (Also, are you filing the images for copyright with the copyright office?)

I mean, one they press that submit button to upload, you basically own the photo now and they're basically giving up their rights to it since you know own the copyright, so you would legally be able to enforce it, and them not so much.

You could also sell the images, sub lease them to other sites, rent, or set up a stock photo site with them and the user who took and uploaded it really wouldn't be able to do much.

 

I'm not saying that. He IS giving you rights to it, but they are NON-EXCLUSIVE, meaning that while you retain rights to it, other people may, too. I believe the only one that you CANNOT go after for copyright violation is him, unless he in-turn gives rights to another person or entity.

But I'm no lawyer.

I guess the best advice that ANY of us could give you is if you're really worried and you want as solid of terms as possible, go hire a lawyer.

I'm off to bed. :slow: