The Burning Question

Hmm.

 

No, I really dont think so. I think they are broke and off doing other coding jobs to make some money. My guess they are trying to hold off until the suit is settled, one way or another.

In the meantime, paying customers are left in the dark because nobody talks.

 

I don't even get why Brogan has this loyally towards them saying nothing. I mean, he left and then they blatantly censored his posts afterwards. It's not as though they treated him with respect after leaving, quite the opposite in fact. The only thanks Brogan got for moderating looking after things, was having his posts butchered afterwards by KAM!

Your loyalty is admirable, but wrongly placed from what I saw happen. They pretty much stuck 2 fingers up at you in the end!

 

I don't think it has anything to do with loyalty, and everything to do with him simply trying to be the "better" man.
For that, I admire him.

But as Joey said, paying customers are left in the dark. Still, it's not Paul's place to enlighten them.

 

No, it's not his place to be honest telling people - if it's really bad like IB taking over XF, or they was going through Bankruptcy. That's way too drastic coming from another person like Paul, it should come from KAM themselves informing customers about a situation like that. But as you and Joey say, customers are being left hanging still with what's going on, and Brogan seems to be dropping a HINT something IS going on and the reason for him leaving.

 

Contrary to some suggestions/theories, I do know everything which has gone on (and I mean everything) but it really wouldn't be professional or correct for me to post publicly about any of it.
I also don't want to be held responsible for any repercussions resulting from anything I say - it really is up to the company owners to make a statement, if that's what they decide to do.

I don't have any loyalty to Kier or Ashley but I do respect Mike and consider him a friend and for that reason also I won't say anything.

If the truth is ever known then all will become clear.

I appreciate that doesn't help anyone but it's not my job to update XenForo customers. It never was.

 

To be honest Brogan, I was going to say maybe your friendship with Mike was a big part of the reason for you keeping quiet. I had a feeling when coming to Kier and Ashley only, your loyalty isn't there, but just to Mike as a personal friend. That's understandable!

 

When one has agreed to hold something in confidence then one should always do so.

That's why all the former beta testers who leaked stuff at vBulletin back in 2009 annoyed me. They signed NDA's I believe, then broke them when it suited them.

Brogan's right not to say anything. In any case, even if he did, there would be people saying it wasn't true.

Anything that is to be said needs to come from the business owners.

 

It depends on what it is. If its something bad that will affect paying customers negatively then keeping quiet is NOT honorable IMO. No Brogan, it isnt your job, but if the information is going to hurt paying customers, their sites, etc. then the honorable thing is to be the wistleblower. IMO

 

Whatever has gone on, is likely to be personal to the developers and the gory details are not needed.

If, as I suspect, things have really gone rather bad for them, then all three have my greatest sympathy and I wish them nothing but the best.

Whatever it is, and whatever the end result for XenForo as a product, I hope they can pull through it and emerge stronger.

 

No, it is not for Brogan to shoulder that responsibility. It is not dishonourable of him to decline to comment, quite the opposite.

 

Again - your right. It depends on what the info is.... And what impact it will have on customers. If its just that one of the KAM is having personal problems or something, then he should be quiet... But if its that they wont be releasing 1.2 or are making a deal with IB or something like that, then he would be letting paying customers make decisions that could be harmful to them and avoidable if he spoke up.

One thing is for sure, we have been right... SOMETHING is going on, its not all peaches and cream over there...

 

I believe you'd be wrong there. People know Brogan knows things, so he would be believed and taken seriously by 99.9% of people. Myself included, and I'm betting everyone in this thread, even you Mark.

 

Just let me respond in here as you quoted my post from another site.



First of all this , after reading this thread , i now am fully confident that my resignation from vBSEO was one of the best decisions i made. Before speculating any further , i will continue to be in vBSEO team till August 31 to assist them within the days without me. I decided to quit vBSEO a project i worked over 6 years because of people like you. Please don't get me wrong , internet is a free place and you can post anything you want , however many of you are completely spending your only time creating and discussing tons of theories about developers that offer products for sale. As i stated in original thread you copied , you guys think paying 30-40$ for a license renewal fee you guys deserve everything in our lives. In reality this is actually completely wrong. I learned it when i am working with Enterprise level products and the support level offered on those many different enterprise products. Trust me you'll never see fast support responses like vBSEO , vBulletin , Xenforo etc..



Forum solutions and communities were great example to development world in past. Good competition , many add on companies , different products. It all changed unfortunately with the sale of vBulletin. I know the truth behind the scenes but can't post or talk anywhere about them. I can't even chat with my friends , basically me and couple other people's freedom's are limited right now. That is my main concern instead of Xenforo being developed or not.



In that post , i just simply stated truths which i've posting on different occasions. I have more then one hobby site running on Xenforo and if i decide to run any other one , i will not hesitate to run or purchase it again. Even if Kier and Mike will not deliver a new version. The product offered for 140$ is still there and usable. It is your personal choice to purchase or not.



However forums that i make money or my company makes money from are business. I can't and will not depend on a script that has a huge law suite going around or future is unknown. That is something i can't do because of my responsibilities to the company i work at.



Final information : My concerns are 99% related to billion dollar company suing a small new start up company. other than that i don't think Kier and Mike will do many things they were accused by in this thread by you and others.



What will happen if someone tries to speak every detail about you , accuse you money grabber thief etc..



Do you really think you have the right to talk tons of garbage about other people ?



Seriously this thread should be handed to a doctor so many will be treated for their paranoia.



there is nothing wrong about raising concerns but taking every word out and create a conspiracy theory is not healthy human beings will do.



I am sad for many people around and good luck with the paranoia world you created.



However correct way is simple : Respect & Empathy

 

Think people do expect a "certain level of communication" these days. IPB seem to realise that much and how important it is to them, that they are seen doing it ongoing, even vBulletin have made a push to improve things in that area specifically. You can argue it doesn't come with the license fee paid, but if companies don't give a good level of communication compared to others in the same selling field, then they will only suffer for it in the long run. We've seen that much already when XenForo was posting frequent updates, they reaped the benefits of doing it. But look what's happened since it stopped 3 months ago, speaks for itself.

So it makes common sense to provide good communication as part of the license service (by default), and it shouldn't be something customers have to scream out for. I'm really amazed at how naive some people are involved in running companies themselves, they have very little business sense about what matters to grow a business on further. Keeping customers supplied with information and updated regular is "very important", it makes them feel much more involved in things going on within the company, and that they also picked the right one to do business with.

 

Whats more.... It seems like most people who say they know things - wont talk. They have various reasons, either its "not their place" or its the fault of the BIG BAD Internet Brands. Let me ask you -- who has "Respect & Empathy" for the poor schumck forum owner whos money is powering all this?

 

I can' talk because i am part of the Law Case anything i say can be used against me. Also Joey for your information you can't see me posting or arguing on different websites. I simply don't have time for that.

 

I wasnt singling you out LK, Im not even referring to any one specific topic. There are several different things going on and a number of people involved.

 

Mert has made some very good and sobering points. Every action has a reaction, cause and effect. We should be mindful that in the absence of any facts from Xenforo about what is "going on" (as confirmed by Brogan, something is) that what we say here will have an effect somewhere and that our opinions and theories may be entirely wrong.

He makes a good point about the licence cost and our limited rights. Should we expect more? Possibly not, though I refer back to previous arguments we put forward that it is not just the lack of communication that is the root of the issues, it is the change from one state to another (very active to not active) with no explanation.

I know we have tried to go out of our way to stress we are just aggrieved customers who were censored on Xenforo and just want the best for the product - and for our own communities - but we need to be careful not to cross the line. What line? The line where it appears you no longer want the best for the product but are just "bashing it".

We need to ask ourselves some "What if?" questions. What if Kier and Mike ARE working their arses off doing third party work to pay the bills, so they can keep Xenforo alive? What if they are locked in settlement talks trying hard to save something of the company? What if one or both of them have had serious personal issues? These are all valid reasons why they would not want to comment.

We also need to ask, are we helping Xenforo now with these threads? To start with we had good intentions to try and smack the fanbois in the face and say "Can't you see what's happening? Something is not right" - proven to be correct by subsequent events. But as these threads drag on and we have already made our points, are we actually doing any good now? Or are we just stirring things and creating negative vibes about a product we are supposed to be supporting?

 

If they cant stand criticism, they have no business being on internets, leave alone doing something for other people.

Brutal but simple as that.