Is xenForo Dying?

I have long believed there is a risk to XenForo, despite how weak IB's case is.

I only have to cite the case of vBAdvanced losing control of their vBGallery product to Photopost some years ago.

There is no substance in IB's case against XenForo but it never looked good from the start.

It will be a poor day for internet services generally if this happens because it will prove that big companies can get their own way no matter what, they can even buy "justice".

Probably if that happens it will be the beginning of the end for me and forums, I can't be doing with all this drama in the background. It never used to be like this.

 

Well if it turns out to be true, that they are settling with IB. I think it's simply a case that the "endless money pot" Internet Brands have at their disposal, it's driven XenForo into a corner they can no longer afford to carry on defending. It's a small start-up company and they might not have the funds needed to keep battling on any further.

Let's face it, there isn't even a regular "Moderator" online there anymore to monitor threads and post made. XenForo has all but been abandoned on the face of looking there! All I see now is the mod Lawrence popping up online every blue moon.

 

I can't say I would blame them if they walked away. Let's face it, life is too short to waste it on endless litigation even if you are morally and legally in the right. I am sure they must have explored other options, we have no rights to expect them to fight on to the end just out of principle, nor should we expect them or anyone to carry on if they are not enjoying it. Honestly, there are times when the bigger picture, which includes your health and your family, must come first. Xenforo is just a company, the product is just a forum. And they need a decent reward and decent living too, maybe that's impossible with Xenforo because they don't have the sheer numbers of customers to offset the costs of legal defence.

For me this is not about who is right or wrong or what they are doing. It is about the lack of transparency and openness and an apparent unwillingness to tell us paying customers what is going on. Quite honestly whatever the reason is I doubt it will be a surprise, but they need to speak soon and put this one to bed. That is especially important if nothing is wrong behind the scenes, because we are thinking the worst and this speculation, including my own, is ludicrous.

 

Absolutely right - your family, health and well being should come first. To be honest, if they are settling because they just cannot afford to carry on fighting Internet Brands due to court cost involved. Fair enough, you have to respect that decision made by them. I'd do the same if getting to the point were your having to think about doing extreme things like re-mortgaging your house to keep fighting on, there comes a point when you have to call it quits or risk losing everything.

What your saying there, is really what leads me to feel they possibly might be settling with Internet Brands. I just can't think of any other reason why they'd remain so silent saying nothing still. Apart from if something like this was going on behind the scene.

 

I didn't know that AWS, thanks for the info.

 

I never remember Kier and Mike being active on vBulletin before, not in the many years I was a customer there. They always worked in the background and you rarely saw much posted from them on the forums, or even being present there online. For me, it always seemed they worked mainly in the background 99% of the time as employed developers and instead mods like "Steve Machol, Floris, Wayne Luke, Zachery, Jake Bunce" and others played the public face of the forums as support staff. Most certainly not Kier and Mike, who from my memory I saw very little off. In fact, I never knew who they was or what their main role was at vBulletin for years when people used to mention their names in threads. That tells just how active Mike and Kier was there publicly to know them better.

Kier Darby only has 8,250 posts to his name on vBulletin, even after all those many years working there. But look at Wayne Luke and Jake Bunce with 41,000+ post to their name, and Steve Machol with a massive 154,776 posts. Interestingly, something you wouldn't expect to see, but even Mike Sullivan had more posts than Kier on vBulletin with 13,374. Looking at those numbers it tells you, that if anyone was the least active it was Kier and why I for one don't remember him ever being around that much on vBulletin?

Looking at that you could be correct though, that they've decided it's how they want to do things again to be more productive faster. Only problem with that one, they don't have enough moderators on the forum acting as support staff and dealing with other issues like vBulletin before giving them the breathing space to work quietly in the background. They only have Brogan doing a great job with help from Steve Bunce, but he's not a moderator. I don't count the other Moderator they have because you never see him hardly.

I have no issues with them going back to working in the background, never did at vBulletin. Just as long as other staff are present on the forum willing to supply answers and information. That's the crux of the whole thing, absolutely nothing is being said leaving customers in the dark?

 

Some XenForo information from Companies House that I found interesting (attached)

The gist of it is, in June 2011 (when they where at their strongest), they had £100,000 of debts (legal bill maybe?), and they made a loss. Got to wonder what the situation is like now, almost a year on.

 

The interesting part is the very bottom. It says it's been prepared as a "going concern bases", but for me it seems to say they showing -£41,494 in dept. But also goes on to say everything is pinned on a succesful outcome of the court-case, which I guess means winning and getting some money to brings things into the green on blance sheet, that how it looks reading anyhow. That's not good news, because IB keep coming up with new things to drag the court-case on longer and recently just had some things granted their way. That means XenForo will keep spirilling into more dept the longer it carries on, something IB are well aware off no doubt and will aim to grag things on further.

I don't see were it says they are -£100,00 in dept, maybe I'm just not reading it right? Also, I would imagine they didn't make a loss as such in 2011, just that the court-case has eaten into it all and put them in dept. Otherwise, had it not been for the court-case they may have made a profit.

 

The "Creditors - amounts falling within one year" is money you owe - typically legal/accounting and other costs you expect to repay within a year. So in June 2011, they owed £100,000.

I can't post links (less than 10 posts), but if you google for "balance sheet understanding", and click the second result (should be from in-business), it gives a nice overview of what each number means

 

I'm most likely reading it wrong, like I said above. I'll take your word then they are £100,000 in dept. Wow, who would have thought!!!

This video sum up how I feel reading this news. That is one huge hole to dig yourself out off, and with the court-case still ongoing.

 

I wouldn't jump to conclusions based on the balance sheet, although it is interesting reading. Most companies in their first few years have unusual accounts.

I think all we can do now we've got this off our chests is wait. We can only hope there will be some sign of activity from staff once the Easter holidays have been and gone. (Insert your own jokes about resurrections and missing XF staff here).

 

The good thing is, the product is still running fine. If there were serious bugs, I'd be a lot more pissed.

 

Or maybe InternetBrands just bought XenForo (jk)

 

You might joke but often buying your competition or taking them over is cheaper and easier than litigation.

 

Well, let's see: XF is the best script I have worked with in 10 years. My forums are up and runing ACTIVE and will a great future. Had NO problems with the platform. And I have a lot of work to do ON MY SITE than waste time with the drama in the development team. I have not ditched VB as a solution cause of their problems, it's just not up to par with what I want now from a forum script. Maybe we should run our communities more than waste time with the drama

 

I'm working hard on mine, but I still like a bit of drama! Ask Mark.B, he claims he's the biggest Drama Queen on the web (second to me). :yes:

 

It isn't drama to some of us. It is genuine concern because some things do not make sense; why has the co-developer who was once very active not posted since January, the other developer not posted since March? OK, that leaves no developers left taking an active part in their OWN company forum. The final staff member makes one post to say, there are no updates at this time. The once active moderator has not posted for five days. This is concern to those people who don't have piles of cash sitting around and for whom buying the software was a considered purchase, it is a concern to those who wonder if the product has a future. It might be a great platform now, but what about tomorrow and the day after? You need active staff to maintain it. You need faith and trust in them. Xenforo staff have just gone missing. It's strange, wrong and frankly, it is rude. Their customers deserve an explanation. Without that explanation they are abusing all the support, financial and otherwise, their community gave them.

 

There isn't much drama anyway going on, next to nobody is asking questions on XenForo even though 2 devs and 1 moderator (Brogan) hasn't been seen all week now. I've spotted the odd comment posted, but that's about it. Don't really see any drama happening at all, and to be honest I'm starting to think we'll see XenForo 1.2 released soon like "AWS" suspects and that will be it - end of story!