Vbulletin.com Saga

Funny thing is for the most part most of us would not like this on our own sites. Yet we come here and act like those we most despise on the sites we run.

Please keep in mind we are supposed to be "arbiters of taste" when it comes to forum management. Lets try to keep that level up please.

 

I would put this on my site, but my site isn't/doesn't involve software or management of our software. I did make an announcement that i will no longer be updating my sites software and what they now see, is what they will get. If my site were a software related site, i would definitely have a post/posts related to this. Sadly, the things that are happening right now are just that, they are happening. We can't hide from it, and sadly, most people don't want to talk about it. I guess if people don't talk about it, the problems will just go away (if that makes any sense). Kind of like health care here in the U.S., i have noticed that most people that have insurance don't want to help those that don't have insurance. (totally different topic, but i am just using as a comparison). Those that don't have insurance, want and need it. I know i have gone without health insurance in the past and wished i would have been able to seek medical help.

 

I would like to add this to my post, so that it is in one place and not all over. (This statement is my view on how things could/should have been handled). I probably wouldn't have been banned (others too). I tried to voice this over at vbulletin.com, but it appears i may have become a troll (i learned a new word today), but i got really frustrated that nobody was listening.

 

Just to update people on where i am at with my complaint about the internet brand company. I officialy filed a complaint with the better business bureau in California. I just received a confirmation from the BBB that my complaint has been sent to the internet brand corporation. I am asking for a refund of my upgrade renewal fee, because i did not know of the changes internet brand was bringing forth (not receiving blog support) before i paid. Had i known that i would no longer be allowed to upgrade my blog software, i would have never renewed. I am very happy where my site is at, and am satisfied with no longer upgrading software ( A little sad to be honest). I will let everyone know the outcome of my BBB complaint.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you are leaving, but I guess there isn't anything that can be done about it. I've already done my best (and still am) to address the situation, but it's hard to please everybody. And I especially cannot please those who leave and don't even make suggestions as to how to rectify the problem in the first place.

Where, oh where, did this come from?! I cannot imagine why so many people have decided to criticize me, my actions, and the alleged reasons behind my actions.

All of the threads that have been linked to by the external sources (The Register, etc.) are in a private forum that only registered members have access to. How is this begging for traffic and attention? In my opinion, it does just the opposite.

Maybe I'm missing something, or you know something that I don't know. Please do enlighten me if you get the chance.

 

Nick, I haven't been a member here for very long, but I think you're doing a great job.

I thought David McHenry's post was pretty well along the lines of how I feel.

From where I sit, I can see you've tried to please all parties and are trying to strike a balance. So I know it kinda sucks, to then be criticized when you're trying to do the best for the overall community.

Personally, to me, I think censorship sucks.

I believe, it kind of defeats the purpose of having a forum in the first place. Life isn't all positive all the time, sometimes there are negatives as well, that's just something all of us have to deal with.

I'm not sure why some people call for, or expect censorship the minute something gets posted that they don't like or agree with - that's simply not a realistic threshold. Most understand that there are always lines in the sand that have to be drawn, but I think where some people would suggest the line be drawn simply isn't realistic.

And as an Administrator, (which I thought most of the members here were basically supposed to be), it's pretty hard set the limit, at the point where the most sensitive member on the site won't have to read something and get upset about it. To try to do that, you might as well shut the forum down.

I always find it a bit regrettable when people threaten to leave a forum simply because they don't agree with something that's been posted. I always wonder why people, simply, just don't read what it is they don't like or agree with, instead of calling for it to be moderated or censored.

You've put the passionate vBulletin related threads into it's own forum and labeled it appropriately. So I'm not sure what the big ta-do is all about really.

There seems like a simple solution here...people who don't want to read negative vBulletin topics, should simply stop visiting the specific forum you set up for them. That way, everyone will be happy.

Censorship is a pretty slippery slope, especially when a few members start trying to set the limits for the entire community as to what is acceptable or not.

In the end, I think you're doing a great job here and sometimes I guess it just comes down to the old adage of "you can't please everyone, all the time".

All the best.

 

ummm I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that John made his post before he was aware of the steps you're taking to rectify the situation.

 

Such may be the case, but when I consider the fact that the changes I made were done 12 hours before his post, I couldn't help but think otherwise. :shrug:

Even if the threads were still public, it's rather depressing to think that John believes it was done as a publicity stunt.

 

He posted this before you implemented the changes, iirc.

 

I did form my opinion before you implemented the private area for these discussions. I think this was exactly the correct thing to do and I applaud you for it Nick. I will offer up my apology here and now if my comments caused you grief. Unfortunately I can't commit to being more active than I am in my very limited capacity but I can assure you it has nothing to do with thinking ill of you or your staff

 

I implemented the changes on Monday evening; he made his post on Tuesday morning. That doesn't matter though.

Thank you; this means a lot, and I do appreciate it.

 

It wasn't wrong of him to expose them. It is ugly what they did. however, it was wrong of him to get in verbal fights with vbulletin.

They should have been exposed if in fact what he is saying is true. Trying to fight them directly wasn't a good idea. It would have been much better for him to write a press release.

 

Absolutely correct. I think allot of people thought that the licensed customer feedback section was for just this. I know i did.

 

Honestly, you've handled things pretty decently, and I can't say that in your shoes I'd do much differently. You really can't please everyone, and when you try to, you find yourself just working way too hard for nothing.

Trying to fight vBulletin at all is not a god idea, unless there are a group of individuals going at it all at once, which is why indivuals affected by this need to get together and take action somehow.

 

Thats not true. It may be easy for a large company to pressure an individual but a person can do more damage to a company than the company to the person. Most people are just too afraid to fight it.

I don't know that vbulletin was wrong but i'll give you a good idea of how it works.

Vbulletin is a software application. One that people use as a staple for their businesses. Now, if the end user depends on it for his financial well being and they restrict his access they had better document every action taken very well.

Civil suits, unlike criminal cases, don't need 100% proof to prevail. If they lied to him about their intentions with the licensing then that could be enough cause for a judge (or jury) to believe the end user. lol, he would only need to sue them based on that actually. The arguement came later and pretty much is immaterial unless he makes the results of the argument a part of the case.

Now, although this is a debate between three people (2 from vbulletin and 1 end user), the law would see it as 1 end user versus vbulletin.

If the law (judge, magistrate, or jury) "finds" that vbulletin lied then the end user will win. There isn't much mercy for companies these days. "Financial Terrorism" is rampant during recessions. Not that i'm accusing them of anything.

I don't know who was right but if I were those vbulletin guys I would be careful. If there were private messages sent and if he has a copy or screenshot then he could use the above posts (stating there was no private communication) against them in court to prove vbulletin to be deceptive. It'd be all downhill from there.

I'm sure there are more than 2 people working for vbulletin so hopefully they haven't been that silly. That would be jepoardizing themselves and the other employees that work there.


All it would take is for the end user to decide he wants to fight.

But again... i'm not for one side or the other. If i were them i'd come to a settlement and realize it just ain't that serious. i'd probably restore the dude seeing as that administrative error has most likely given him a stable legal ground.

It's all about perception. Everyone sees the companies as the bad guy these days

 

And to be fair to you becuase my post above might make some on your side quite nervous...

Your the "King" in this case and the end user is the "pauper". The pauper is going to complain and he may be wrong. Even so you have to be "Kingly". Sometimes you just have to make the common man feel a little more special than they deserve. Otherwise his whiny cause becomes contagious and the community rallies to him. He's the underdog.

In the eyes of the community the "king" has the power to make any situation right. And when he does not, they revolt (good reason or no),

Just a leadership rule I learned running IT shops and also as a US Marine.

Wish both parties well.

 

*Excuse my language from here on out.


I had at one time, a client who owed me over $2,500 for a corporate identity package I used to do. My policy was and still is "You've got 30 days to pay it off," albeit now it's a bit different. It took that company nearly 70 days to pay me. Not once did I "out" them for the "cheap bastards" (as some have called vBulletin) they were. In the end I got money. I stopped having that issue when I issued a 10% interest hike each week the payment is late.

The same concept. No one deserves to be treated like shit.