RIP - Ted Kennedy

I hope that was a joke.

 

No, this is a joke.............





Sorry to step on any toes, being a noob here. But that guy did more to move us towards socialism and a welfare state than almost anyone else in that 47 years. Lifetime politicians should be outlawed. It was never meant to be a career.

Now they are shamelessly using his death to promote ANOTHER anti-American, government-run bureaucracy! Anyone that agrees with taking from one man and giving to another has no concept of the principles America was founded upon.

Just sayin'.

 

You guys are killing me

 

DMV offices were wonderful in my state till the Republican governor cut budgets to the point where most of the DMV workforce quit and/or had to find other means of income. Lines go around the building outside during every business hour they're open.

Government run programs are amazing...when streamlined. As in updated and kept up instead of cut backs.

Government run isn't anti-American. I don't see how providing competition, adding employment to those who want to work, and serving people is anti-American. Perhaps you're against that (as in maybe you're anti-American)?

 

State governments are set up as the Federal government is. It is not a monarchy, a dictatorship, or any other "one-man" operation. Your governor could not have cut any budget without the legislature approving it. Funny how that works, huh?

There is no such thing as a "streamlined government program". Pure fantasy on your part. Anything they touch becomes bloated and expensive.

Yes, "government-run" IS anti-American! The Constitution lays out specific functions, such as "establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity........."

Nowhere does it authorize government to compete against the free market system. Our public schools have become so bad that our young people have no idea of what a watered-down, perverted version of history they have been taught. It's not the government's job to employ people!

Oh yes, I'm as Pro-American as it gets. I'm one of those that obama warned you about. I'm a typical white person, clinging to my guns and religion. Funny that now, as it was typical of most of our founders. Spirit, courage, judgment, individualism was a trait to be had. No one wanted a politician to take care of him!

You should brush up on our early history. Get some books, like John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, read the anti-Federalist papers, some Madison, etc., educate yourself. Your view of government's role is totally foreign to what the founders intended. What you're seeing now at the Town Hall meetings is the remnant of that early spirit of self-reliance and freedom, freedom from government's heavy yoke. God Bless America, may we take our country back soon.

 

What does "No one wanted a politician to take care of him" have to do with anything? People want and need tools and services to become successful and to cut costs (like poison control).

Pure fantasy on my part? It's pure fantasy to think the free market can last without some level of regulation. Same with thinking that corporations will always have good intentions or would be willing to think about safety or the environment (not saying all do or don't).

Just because something doesn't say that the government can do something doesn't mean the government can't. Sometimes the government has to step in to save the free market from eating itself alive. Democrats support the free market, but with some regulation to protect people's rights and well being.

Town Hall meetings. Interesting how you mentioned that. I thought Republicans didn't like people who speak out or protest. Republicans don't have any thoughts on how to fix the healthcare system to bring it to the level of other civilized countries.

 

wow...That something is The United States Constitution my friend. You have the nerve to talk about others as being Ant-American but you're okay with our government walking all over the Constitution? A government stepping out side this so called "something" is the very definition of Anti-American. It doesn't matter if this person is Democrat or Republican either. I don't know whose teaching you government but I would demand a refund.

Anyhow, as stated above that change would have come from the legislation. So do you care to share with us your state?

 

Like I said, with our schools infested with liberal NEA teat-suckers, it's no wonder the younger generation has no clue what the Constitution stands for, and how it is the cornerstone of our nation. There is no reasoning with them.

And your caregiver government was equally responsible for the recent turmoil. Do some digging on Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Fannie Mae, community reinvestment act, etc., etc. When it was tried to reign them in back in 2004, the dems screamed bloody murder. They had to keep handing out bad loans to keep a big voter block happy and coming back to the polls.

Government, unchecked, leads to tyranny. Dems or repubs, doesn't matter.

 

Wow this thread turned into an all-out attack on Ted Kenndy. How sad. I'm not a democrat, nor was I particularly fond of the Kennedy's on most political levels. However, my daughter was able to get the help she needed thanks to the "No Child Left Behind" bill, sponsored and pushed by Mr Kennedy.

The Kennedy's did do ALOT of good for this country on a personal level, as well.


R.I.P. Mr. Kennedy.

 

If anyone would take the time to view the man's "voting record" (i know, who would think of doing that?), they would find that this man voted almost every time "against" personal freedom and "for" increasing government. But why would we want to inject the facts into a thread?

That's the problem with our society today, as long as they "get something" from some politician, they'll ignore the sleazy things they do. A shame really. You can tell a LOT about a politician by examining their voting record over a few years. Try votesmart.org for starters.

Stop listening to the main stream media and educate yourselves on what's happening around you. Don't be sheep. Dangerous times are right around the corner.

 

Ok, I was going to stay out of this thread, but this sounds like a threat. Are you guys saying that if you don't get your way on this health care issue, you're going to bring about "dangerous times"? You would seriously put your own country through that, just because you have somehow been convinced that health care is not in your best interests?

Don't tell me it would be because health care is not in the Constitution; the Constitution is a living document. It has been amended 27 times in order to modernize our government; to add, sometimes subtract, and otherwise modify things that our founding fathers did not and could not anticipate. If we hadn't amended it, we'd still have slavery, women wouldn't have the right to vote, you wouldn't have your favorite amendment (that second one). Besides, no one is talking about writing this into the Constitution that I know of. (Maybe they should.)

Don't tell me it's because single payer health care is SOCIALISM!, it would be just another government service that you could choose to use or not. If you can qualify for private insurance (you aren't one of the millions of Americans with pre-existing conditions) hey, good for you. People like me will never qualify because we will never be profitable. Insurance companies are your death panels, right there.

Don't tell me it's because it's too expensive, we spent billions on the war in Iraq that could have been better spent on funding health care here for years. Besides, think of the money we would save with a healthy population. Think of the salutary effects this could have on small businesses, if they no longer had to worry about health coverage for their employees. Think of the salutary effects this could have on people wanting to start their own businesses. Think of the American expatriates who live and work in foreign countries in order to get health care who could finally come home.

Don't tell me it's because giving health care to the people who can't get it on their own would just ruin it for those who already do. First, because there's no evidence that will happen (look at the system in France, they have an outstanding system. Why are we letting the French beat us at health care? We're supposed to be superior, right?). Second, because "I got mine, don't ruin it for me" is simply not a very convincing argument to, say, someone with cancer who can't afford chemo.

This is not to say I fully support this bill (it does not address long-term care, for example, which I've been speaking out about), but the furthest I would go to express my displeasure at it would be to chain my wheelchair to the courthouse door. Threatening "dangerous times" if you don't get your way is counterproductive for everyone involved.

 

Exactly

I think you would like my political section of my forum.

example:
http://www.semiautorifles.com/forums/f10/gun-owners-remember-different-ted-kennedy-1373.html

 

The only "threat" is coming from the government. They're threatening to tax you more, reduce your healthcare, decide on their own that you're too old to get that operation, etc., etc. Unless you have read the 1018 page bill, you really have no idea what your talking about. It's all in there. Hidden very nicely I might add. I've made it through 418 pages in two weeks. Now I know why our politicians don't want to! It's horribly complicated and poorly written. Basically, it gives government unlimited power over your health. Fact. Lots of open-ended statements that can be interpreted however they might feel that day.

That's what the dangerous times comment was about, the government making a power grab of 1/6th of our economy. That's not how we do things in a Constitutional Republic.

And your reference to a "threat" is typical of the left, if anyone disagrees with Obama, call them dangerous and libel them as kooks. Americans are starting to see this tactic for what it is, an attempt to silence us. Ain't gonna happen. Don't you know that the president just fell to under 50% approval rating? That's "worse" than Bush at the same time in his term. The wheels are falling off as America slowly rouses to their senses.

No, the Constitution is not a living document. Some hack just coined that term. And how many billions is your boy spending in Afghanistan right now? Yeah, that's HIS war that elicits not a peep from the democrats. Amazing!

Yes, we need some kind of reform, like tort reform and no pre-existing conditions. But this bill ain't it.

And again, the threat is not from me or any other citizen, it's from a big government that you seem to like.

 

Alright, would you kindly show us what's hidden in the bill? Cuz I haven't gotten to the part about the death panels and the unlimited control over my health in my reading of the bill yet. All I've seen are unsubstantiated claims without any text to back them up.

 

wow...a Democrat who is actually making an attempt to read the bill. That is more than our current Administration and Congress put together.

Now me on the other hand, I don't see a need to read the actual bill to know it' not good. The U.S. Government has done nothing but bankrupt every program that has landed in their hands...Social Security,Medicare, and Medicaid for examples. Then show me a nation with a national health care program that works? I've got friends living in the U.K. and everyone over there hates their systems.

Another reason for disagreeing with a national Health Care plan is the fact that it will put the U.S. over 50% government control. That is about like living in the U.K. or some small European nation. If you like government control so much, why not simply move to China or Russia instead of pushing this nation into a Civil War:shrug:

 

It truly is surprising to me how unaware some people are of what is eminent if things don't change for the better, rather soon. It's going to be too late by the time people finally realize.

This may seem a little extreme, but it's purely factual history: Remember Hitler's take-over? During that time, the German people were the most sophisticated in the world; the most educated, the wealthiest, and the most respected. People (albeit very few) may have tried to warn others of what was to come, but people never thought it could happen to them. How could something happen to such a great country? Well, it did. Millions of people were exterminated at Hitler's whim.
Well, what about now? Something like that could never happen to us... it's America, right?!?! As I said, it's going to be too late before people realize that we are not "safe" from such an extreme take-over. Considering the recent (and eminent) "upping" of government, there is much to fear.

Love your country. Fear your government.

Well, to be realistic, you can really only count 17 amendments. The first 10 are the Bill of Rights which were promised to the colonies by the Framers in order to gain their support of the Constitution as a whole. Only 16 amendments have been made post-1800, and that's not much change for 209 years worth of time, to be honest.

Do you honestly think the government really wants a perfectly-healthy population? For example, if they were to find the cure to cancer (if they haven't already) do you honestly think they would throw away a huge chunk of our economy to spare the lives of the diseased?
If the government were to keep the population healthy, doctors would be put out of business.

Government's tactic is to trick you into thinking you need them, so you will support the growth of government. They want you to believe that you are sick (or they want to ensure you are sick) so that you rely on them for help. If the government controls each and every aspect of our lives, what stops them from using it against us. People should never trust their government, and giving them control (i.e. healthcare) is just a huge mistake. It's as simple as that -- and it's not related to healthcare specifically; it's the principle of giving government control.

 

Yes, because it affects me and my family. I really don't want to get into too much detail in public, but I'm one of those completely uninsurable disabled people who refuses to die quietly If there was anything in the bill about death panels or the government trying to kill me off to save money, believe me, I'd be protesting right alongside you.

Again, I'm not arguing that government health care is going to be perfect. Lord knows I've got my share of complaints about it. But what other option exists for people who cannot buy private insurance? Maybe you would rather die than get government insurance, maybe you would prefer to live. That's your choice. But many sick people would prefer to live without bankrupting their families. That's what this bill is about, not forcing everyone out of their private insurance plans.

Actually I do know people who have moved to foreign countries, not from "love of government control", but because they could not get health insurance here. Some would happily return if they could.

Whoa, the other guy said I was libelous to suggest he might be talking about civil war. Is that where you think this is headed? (Hey, you're the guys with the guns, not me. If it came down to a civil war and you got hurt, I'd be the one insisting you still had that right to health care despite your revolution.)

 

RIP, I didnt know the guy or ever heard of him but RIP all the same.

 

Ah, another "coined phrase". But it's pretty close. It's in section 1233 where it talks about end-of-life care, and what the government will and will not pay for.

Older folks are screwed if this passes.

 

I said earlier that tort reform and pre-existing conditions should be the main points of any bill. You should not be denied coverage because of your disability.