vBulletin 4 or vBulletin 5?

Scott do you really have any hope that things will change ?
Don was a great guy and we all know how he escaped away

Many people hate Ray but he was also great and i know how much he tried but he couldn't succeed on putting vBulletin to it's original track.

Because again as we both know developers , managers have no authority to do anything.

Just give up Scott , it is a dead product , why still spend your time on a script that is loosing it's market share each other day

 

Is it dead? Really? I actually still think IB has the potential to turn things around. It is just a matter of a paradigm change from their management. People can change. Will it happen? Who knows?

And to be honest, I could care less if they do or not. But I do still have customers on vB-G.com with issues, who I've gone into a contract with for support. And other than my ignored emails to IB, this is the only other means to fight for them. Is it useless? Most likely. Is it worth my time? Probably not.

The thing is, I still do care for them and with my efforts, I can still have a fairly clear conscience, should I decide to prematurely pull the plug on vB-G and their support. I can clearly show it isn't me that is killing their future with the product, but IB themselves. Most of them know that now anyway. I am just making sure.....

Scott

 

@Paul M - I'll correct myself, because I am humble enough to be able to. You did announce PHP5.4 compatibility is being worked on for vB4 officially over two months ago.

I just happened to run into your announcement thread in another discussion about this same issue on another admin forum, where the thread starter is also warning others about IB's poor managment of vBulletin BTW.

Scott

 

I hope he stays in the background. He'll get a lot more work done if he doesn't waste his days replying to people who can't be satisfied no matter what the response.

Action is a LOT better than words.

 

Talking to customers is an absolute integral part of the job of leading the development of an online community software AND it is the best way to promote it. Staying silent is the worse thing Marjo could do, especially now. Not talking to your customers goes totally against the basis of an online community software, which he is trying to develop and sell! Any leader of an online community software must communicate with his customers and most importantly, as you say, he needs to be able to follow through with the team he is leading, by delivering quality results and not just any ol' action. We've been getting plenty enough action from IB. You can't really complain about IB not doing anything.

The solutions Marjo needs to come up with as I see them are:

1. Fix vB4 right now for PHP5.4/ 5.5. Tell customers approximately when it will be released.
2. Take back vB5 to beta status and start over with proper marketing of any new upcoming features.
3. Develop vB4 and vB5 in parallel for another 6-12 months or until vB5 is a viable alternative for any vB3 or vB4 or competition customers.
4. Start actually listening to customers. Get trust back.
5. Follow normal industry standards for software iterations. No major features in minor releases crap.
6. Reinstate support for all vB5 customers, once vB5 actually goes gold properly.
7. Make sure the development team are actually competent to do their jobs.
8. Make sure Impex is available for the major competion to import them to vB5.
8. Tell IB's management to go take a hike, when they want to make stupid decisions about the development direction of vBulletin or the release timing of the real gold version of vB5.
9. Communicate, communicate, communicate constantly with customers about how things are going to change for the better and then do it!
10. Get trust back.

Scott

 

Well said Scott. Why is it so hard for those whose fault it is, to admit they made a mistake and to set things right?

Despite silly comments about how I and others are posting BS, the facts are that there are an unbelievably high number of customers and interested parties posting all over the internet in many locations about the same things, IE that VB5 is crap and the management and staff are not doing the right thing by their members and customers.

There are just too many people all saying the SAME thing now to ignore them any longer.

If I ran a business training school, I would be tempted to use the VB/IB total experience to show the students what NOT to do in business.

 

Well written Scott.

I want to support vBulletin, but with the current staff it seems they want me to hate it. Thats not a smart business move.

My only fear is that it may be too late for them now.

 

Yes thank you Scott for your insight. I just read your interview in Resources and I must say it was very enlightening both on a personal and professional level.
Kudo's to you and all the best in your new ventures.

 

I disagre with this point.
It's big big bullshit to work paralel on 2 versions (or even more like vB3, vB4 and vB5, ebcause what did we see in the past? they spent many hours with a past version which wasn't released for months, because of an "mobile API showshopper"! that's IMO a NOGO!.

the WHOLE team needs to concentrate on the next major "leader version" (we all know it's just a IB daydream that it will become a leader..) but yea => concencatrate ALL manpower on the next version
ATM they've spent time with vB3, vB4 and vB5.. serriois? for ME it's a NOGO
yea, many will complaim, many will say that it's not fair, but IF YOU PROVIDE somethign usable with some WOW effects, people will liko to move to the nex vesion!

 

What's "Resources"?

 

I'd agree with you too, normally ragtek. But unfortunatly, vB5 is way too far away from being that "next version" for anyone. I also don't think the resources should be split 50/50 between the two versions (if they did it at all). The split should be more like 80% vB5 and 20% vB4. IB has the resources to do it and still keep up pace with the vB5 development.

And I'd bet bottom dollar, if they did actually start to do things right, then the speed from the dev and QA teams will actually pick up pace too. Why? Because things will be running much more normally. The customers might get behind the product again and that will make the lives of the whole team much better, ergo, better performance overall.

Scott

 

As I said before, honestly if you threw a teen age programmer in a room with a few cans of Redbull they could probably knock out the PHP and Ckeditor issues in a few hours.

Not sure why its taken them so long.

 

Menu top of the page "Resources"
Interview found here http://admin-talk.com/resources/interview-with-scott-molinari.39/

 

If you like changes and can manage additional features then I prefer vB5, it has more features as well quite useful.

 

I'm glad you're happy with it. You'll learn
I love chocolate cake and I can manage additional chocolate chips but in all honesty what good is it all if it's only half baked? People are paying full price for half of the advertised product. And are the additional features all functional?

 

I have high regard for your posts and insights, but IMHO here you seem to lose the plot.
Have you found any grounds to believe that IB's objectives are to make their vbulletin customers happy?
INET is a large corp. Thinking that the CORP will suddenly treat its vb customers nicely instead of generating profits the way it does now 'because people can change' just does not seem realistic to me.

 

I believe the lack of enthusiasm by IB to make things right could be a business choice of using the least viable of their assets as a tax shelter. It wouldn't be the first time corps have used this maneuver of registering loses to cover gains in other more viable assets. Just sayin.......

 

Nope, I have no grounds at all. I also never said the chances are good either. I am just of the opinion, if certain management at IB leave or change their attitudes towards the vBulletin business and its customers, you'll also see a big change happen in that business. In Germany, they have a saying. The fish rots at the head first. That is certainly the case with vBulletin. That with a mix of inexperienced developers and you have vB5. A total flop.

I highly doubt IB is generating profits with vBulletin. I can't prove it, but I highly doubt it. And people can change and do all the time. Where there is a will, there is a way. It is just that certain people are stubborn for all the wrong reasons.

But lets assume vBulletin isn't really on IB management's radar as an integral part of their business. Why did they buy it? Just to milk it? Considering most of their assets with forums run vBulletin, that is a stupid, stupid decision. The decision to buy vB, on the other hand, was a smart one. But let's go back to assuming. If it isn't so important. Why go off and sue Xenforo like they did? That law suit costed a good bit of money and I'll bet they paid for most of it too. If vB isn't on their "importance" radar, why have such a large dedicated dev and support team working on it, still?

I am positive IB wants vBulletin to be a success. They just are really, really lousy at getting it done and it is because they have the wrong mindset about how to go about it. That mindset needs to change and can. Will it happen? Probably not.

Whoever believes "making losses to cover gains" is a viable way to avoid paying taxes has a nut loose. Yes it is done and yes, you might be right vB's position is a result of someone saying, "Good we are making losses here, we can right them off." But making a write off is just a way to rationalize something gone very bad, to something halfway good.

Scott

 

http://www.internetbrands.com/ib/autonetwork/

 

I converted my forum from IPB to vBulletin 4 a couple weeks ago, so I think my choice is obvious. VB4 works with the theme I wanted, and it's easier for me to create custom addons. I don't want to learn a new forum software all over again, VB4 has everything I need in a forum software.