Another vBulletin 5 forum has asked for a refund.

Joe you do realize that comments like this can be used against IB/vBulletin and yourself personally? I would refrain from making such stupid comments in public going forward unless you like sitting in rooms being deposed of all day.

 

What he said-

Was true and honest. Sometimes user suggested fixes work, sometimes they do not. Wayne nor I are developers (or QA for that matter) our jobs are to provide support for unmodified vBulletin, and that does not include experimenting with altering files. We will do our best to help and if we learn of a simple fix we will pass it along, but officially we cannot support a modified system.

Yes, I agree, this should have been fixed a long time ago, that is my personal opinion, I have no final say in when such issues actually get fixed however.

I only speak the truth. If I will get fired over the fact I told Big Al I noticed he submitted a ticket, but did not reveal any confidential or account info, so be it- I don't care. I promise you I will not be sitting in a room all day over this.

 

What I just don't understand is, how could vB have gone so far down the tubes in comparatively little time? They used to be, arguably, the best. And surely they have quality programmers. How is it they keep putting out crap?

 

It's because the good programmers left and were replaced by amateurs, and Internet Brands cannot run a forum software development business properly.

When stuff like that happens, lots of companies fail.

 

I don't think it is fair to call the developers amateurs. Yes Kier and others were exceptionally good at what they do, but that doesn't make the IB developers who replaced them bad. Kier left because developers don't get to make the decisions on what to code- at least that is what it seems to me when I read about the reasons he left. That hasn't changed- IB developers don't make the decisions that can change the direction the software takes, I do not blame them for the state of the product.

 

Depends on the developer. From what I've heard (based on professional analysis of the source code on other admin sites by programmers), much of vBulletin 5's code is not done well and is amateurish in how it's written. Could I be wrong about this? Sure, I'm not a programmer. But at least some coders there have to be doing something quite badly wrong.

And you're right, the developers can't make the decisions that can change the software's future direction. That's one of the major reasons everything's gone so wrong, because the people in management apparently don't know what people want from a forum and are pushing a direction that no one really wants other than them.

 

The new owners (IB) should have left vB's organization in place instead of trying to mold it to some big corporate structure. When you have QA team members saying that they have nothing to do with the quality of the product, there is an issue. When staff members put out statements that are counter to what other staff put out and some of those statements just disappear, there is a problem. When all of the lessons learned from the vB4 initial launch were ignored & repeated to a bigger degree with vB5, there is a problem.

A few people have touched upon the issue on various forums but the biggest problem at the moment seems to be that nobody in a position of power at vB wants to step up and take responsibility. Instead of a leader at top with a vision there seems to be a bunch of team leaders who seem to only care about what their little group is responsible for. Something doesn't work? Not their fault, it was the other guys!

 

yep.

Small companies closer to the developers is better in my opinion

The more management you have... the more fat there is that needs to be chopped off.

Son of a Steelmill worker who hated management. what can i say?

 

In a word "RESPECT" or the lack of it!
When any organization thinks they are gods ( I must not use the title "little hitlers" ) and treat their members and customers with scorn then that organization is headed for failure.

When they employ confirmed unethical people as their staff members and spokesperson then they are headed for failure.

When they stop listening and accepting advice from their customers who are trying to help them, then they are headed for failure.

If IB had done the right thing then their customers would rally around them and help, but when they treat their customers with disrespect then failure will follow.

I am astounded at the talent on this forum and I am sure that IF they were treated with a little respect by IB and their staff, then they would rally around and use their extensive talents to assist IB to grow.

But alas IB and its staff have just not got the message. As is very clear by the staffs attitude and comments.

 

Yes, I am of the opinion now, you shouldn't just have great managers in a great company, you should have great leaders too. Leaders who should...

1. be responsible for the actions of your team.
2. make people accountable for their actions so they learn from them.
3. get rid of the chaff and keep the wheat.
4. take charge, when there is a crisis, (and call it a crisis, when there is one).
5. never deny there are problems and get the team rallied to fix them.

etc, etc, etc.

Then there is the part about running a business around a product. This is where proper
management comes in.

1. making sure you release quality products.
2. making sure you understand what good quality is.
3. making sure you can make money with the results of your work.

Leadership is a people thing. Management is a process thing.

IB has none of the above, except maybe #3 and I have my doubts there too. Why else would you need to create $380 million to continue business and to pay off your investors to the tune of $125 million from that debt too? I mean, if your business is running well, you don't take on debt to pay investors. You take on debt to grow your business and invest in it, if anything.

So, we'll see in 2019, where vBulletin and Internet Brands will be at. That is when $330 million of the 380 will be due.....

Scott

Edit: I wanted to link this into the text, but the link function seems to be broken.

http://pevc.dowjones.com/article?an=DJFLBO0020130329e93tntp4h&from=alert&pid=15&ReturnUrl=http://pevc.dowjones.com:80/article?an=DJFLBO0020130329e93tntp4h&from=alert&pid=15

 

Well said.

 

HMMM kinda puts a whole new light on the viability of IB.

The LAST thing they need right now is a debacle likeVB5. The mass desertion of customers who have been treated badly does not bode well for IB.

A little note for the VB staff. Word of mouth comments are very powerful

 

since this thread has died, we'll close it

please keep your post on topic for THIS FORUM thanks.